Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

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Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by porcinet »

Hello everyone, here the challenge (or issue if you like)

i had to separate my factory in two isle (one for quality manufature and one for construct everything and silo). so basicly what i want to do is bring all the final product (like furnace, assembler, personal equipement, ect) to the quality factory for upcycling and bring those high quality product to the other island to bring to my platform in space. i think train will be the most effient in that case (i try whit robot but it not whort the lost by lighting due the travel distance) now here the challenge; 1 train(1-4), 1 line, 2 station both as provider and requester and of course fully auto.

challenge 1 first station(normal quality): make the train go when the request is done (ex. 3 strack assembler, furnace, module, pole, shield or other in the wagon) item will change time to time.
challenge 2 first station: make sure the inserter only put what is needed in the wagon. (like if i have 300 inserter and i only want 200 and for multiple item to)
challenge 3 first station: make a fully automate request chest (6 in line) that will take every demand i will order in the future by himself (when im on other planet) half-bake solution; use a warhouse for taking all the requested item in one ''chest''
challenge 4 first station: make sure that challenge 1,2,3 work together
second station (high quality) challenge: bring back the high end product to the other island so bot can handle the platform request, same problem but whit diferent quality

is been three days im knocking my head off that problem if anyone find a way to make it possible it will be a realife, someone up to the challenge!!!!
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by mmmPI »

Sounds like you're willing to make it overcomplicated for yourself :)

That definitely sounds like a "possible" challenge, but may i ask why you'd separate the 2 part of the factory ? Why not build silo also in the quality part so you don't have to ship "many quality item back" but "none", as you could make the rocket parts with the material that "failed" the upcycle into higher quality, or send the 3 different rocket part component from the main island to the "quality island". I would recommend to do such things if you can because that's much easier.

Now if you know you can do this, but you really want to go for the extra engineering challenge, you've already divided the problem into small task that's good, but it's unclear what you already have working, do you know how to use rail signals ? do you have experience with circuits ? have you tried using interrupts already ? You will need to understand all those and it's quite a lot on its own for a single thread.

From what i understand you want a train system that is able to act like logistic bots between the 2 islands, where you would request some items in the "silo island" from the "quality island" ?
How are those request generated ? Because you describe a "fully automated system" but it seem to be described as something to use for "manual request" or do you plan to have a constant combinator with a list of things to be provided ? i'm not sure where to "begin" but that would be to understand the context in which the system is meant to be used, maybe you plan to read logistic request ? belt backing up to the train station ? [ do you plan to use bots to (un)load trains ?]

Also do you plan to have "more islands" ? are they far away ? One thing that will be useful is the radar, as it allows to exchange circuit network value between the 2 island without wires, this and/or interrupts will be the keys here, but it's a lot to explain, it would most likely help being more precise if you expain a bit what you attempted for, what problem you faced ?
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by Tertius »

You don't need to bring back items for rocket launch. Just build additional rocket silos in your other islands. The only thing you cannot do is to build multiple cargo landing pads for receiving items from platforms.

It might be easier to ship ingredients instead of shipping products, because there are less different ingredients.

In my maps, I explored the area on Fulgora thoroughly before starting to build any factory, and I was always able to find a quite big island somewhere. Enough space for a quite big factory. In my opinion, that was always a good investment of that hour spent. May be too late for your map, but that's a thing to consider.

Although both on the same big island, I have 2 separate factories with their own scrap recycling: one for science pack production and a small mall for often needed items such as (elevated) rails, and another one for item upcycling. Both receive 2 green belts of stacked scrap each, 4 together. Not that big, but not small as well. So the only thing my railway has to do is bringing in the scrap.

The advantage with just carrying scrap around is that it is a single material. Only if you start recycling it explodes into all the different stuff you have to deal with.

So instead of dealing with all the different items, I recommend a different approach: just bring scrap and do everything on the spot. Building an automated multi item train is a big endeavor, with many errors you will make. I know that, I built one and all its iterations took all my Factorio play time to finally get it so good I'm satisfied with. An alternative is to make small trains with just one wagon, dedicated to one material only, but you need so many stations and tracks for that it's not clear if it's really saving space in comparison to just build a complete scrap recycling on each island.


What you can probably do is collecting all surplus on your scrap recycling site and fill it into a train waiting at a station. Unfiltered, unidentified, just what you have as surplus. Whenever this train is full, send it away to your second site. On this second site identify and filter them, then use the items or destroy them.
This train and the whole logic around it is agnostic of what it carries. It just carries what is being filled into it. The logic to decide if the train is full enough and should leave can be simple: more than some minimum amount of stacks are occupied and inactivity > X seconds.

To count how many stacks are occupied use the selector combinator with the "stack size" functionality. Used properly, it's possible to compute exactly how many stacks are occupied with full or partial stacks for single wagon trains, and roughly the amount for multiple wagon trains. For multiple wagon trains, it's possible to have multiple partial stacks in different wagons, so the amount of stacks cannot be computed exactly since you cannot read the content of a single wagon.
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by thelordodin »

And no mods like cybersun or LTN that does almost exactly that?
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by porcinet »

no i dont have those mods but it could be a good idea for the future i'll check those thanks :)
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by porcinet »

for mmmPI

im pretty much a beginner in circuits and train network, i understand the basic mostly but if i want to make something more expert im pretty much at lost. so why i have two seperate is because i got one small island where i got a lot of scrap(over 200 mil) but whit all my might i only could make a 1-3 tarin out of it, the bigest island i have close enough of this one patch is seperate in two because i got another scrap patch on it that i exploit. if i put in ratio it would be like 15% train network, 20% accumulater, 40% mine scrap and the rest 25% rest is for the factory itself (including the scrap sorting and that one whit quality in too) after all that if i want to include silo on this island i will only have place for 4 or maybe 5 in the space left. oh and the other reason i have space age dlc so bring a lot of item in space take lot of silo so i need (or more exatcly i want) 20 silo minimum. for those reason, i have to seperate my factory and then whit the new island i set up got place for the silo and then i say ' i have place enough for sicence here' so i make science and then 'still have space left i'll make a bot mall fully beacon' and then i was 'i make all those item i should bringing back to the other factory to help upcycling my MAM' so now im here whit that issue.

right now what i have in mind is; i use a MAM (make anything machine) fully cycle automated whit a list in a constant combinater (i will not take credit for make it but i modified it so it will be able to cycle product to make, i try to send the blueprint) oh and on that list is pretty much 0 ''false'' 1 ''true''. whit the group mecanic whit the constant combiner it will be the same list i will request the item i need to send (basicly what i make is what i want to bring) what i have in mind (working on) is heavely working whit bots, one station would have 1-2 wagon whit request chest,3-4 whit active provider chest the other station is inverted, so unloading is not really a problem, basicly take all is in the wagon and send it to the logistic network (i use a buffer warhouse to receive the item or if lazy a row of storage chest could do the trick). the tricky part is loading the cargo, for the high quality part is mostly simple just request all( in my case rare item, i still does'nt visited gleba yet) but because it take time to stack up those quality item, most of the time the train would leave whit not to much item in the wagon but the simple way for this one is wait for X time and go i would say one minute and go and to not waste time put another condition like cargo = XX value, issue here is i will have to set up about 40 condition, if is on OR condition when one is meet the train will go directly after one item, if all condition on AND it will never go before the time up, so not the best condition to use. now the real part is tricky, the normal quality product will be almost always full so most likely have more that the wagon can hold, wild i write this i think of a solution for challenge three the request chest i was thinking to have number of stack item in all chest but the spread request make it that all chest have more demand so (needed to be test) insted i'll put one stack per item i want multiple by the number of chest (only limited by the number of slot available 48 for the chest) in theory if i want 2 stack i put two chest if i want 3 stack i put three chest so far and so on. how i see it would be (constant combinater have the list of item again 1 for true 0 for fasle, put on a select combinater on stack size, connect every chest whit the select combinater just not sure if connect the chest together or seperatly) now i need i circuit that will make the inserter put only a threchold of item and make condition for the train to leave when ask. what i see for the inserter controlle is take the list i got already put on select combinater on stack size multiply by the number of stack i want like 2, then read the signal of the train of what inside *-1, output on another selector to have the highest signal and then on the inserter for set filter. it work in other machine i have but only for one inserter, not sure for more then that. and for the train condition i was thinking of two decider one read what in the train ''each >0;signal of choose to 1'' what it would make will be every item in the wagon would send a signal transfer to the other signal (like green). this will do '' 1 item; 1 green, 2 item; 2 green, 3 item; 3 green and so on. the second deceider will be take the other signal (the green one)> 10/another signal''cross'' to one and put that signal to the train condition. right now is the best solution i found even if it got some flaw in the design

also because of space age dlc and scrap recycling 90% of the part needed for the rocket is already make, blue circuit,LDS by recycling just need a small setup for rocket fuel. for now i dont plan to have more island until later in the end game when i rebuild everything to try my hand on megabase.

for tertius

your right it will be easier to combine the two island in one and just bring scrap over, i just got two issue about that solution other then space (and the fact im just a averge player). one power, second storage and stack. i have a recycle setting on both island even a safe third one for extra need just a lot smaller then the other. one of those setup is for quality the other for fast normal marterial. i use 4x quality MAM whit assembler plus 3x quality MAM whit emp + two more machine setup for single item so for all the material i need take almost 50% of the space i got just to store everything and for power well whit the place left i dont have enough accumulater to manage both factory(a little bit more then 90GJ of power per day) and is also why i can't put too much station either

thank you both for your insight i hope i give the information you wanted to see the sitution and here the quality MAM/fc blueprint
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by mmmPI »

I would really recommend building silos on the 2nd "quality" island so you don't have to transfert rocket parts between the 2 islands. Supposedly on Fulgora you have "small and rich island", and "large and poor" the small one that contain the deposits are particularly benefitting from quality accumulator and lightning rod/ collector, so you can free up more space for longer train or beacons. keep only miner and power there. Bring all the scrap to a large island (or 2) and make the rockets parts on each, you can even re-use the same blueprints.

I don't understand much of what you wrote, but it doesn't seem to describe a problem you encountered while playing, more like your plans, or a system you saw somewhere and want to reproduce, it's unclear what's blocking you so far.
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by porcinet »

here my blueprint for the station do far; the limitation on this one is

1: nomber of slot available; number by chest and wagon slot, i could put 48 diffirent item in the chest but only 40 in wagon and because i put 2 stack of each item come to 20 slot each wagon.
2: reset selected filter, cant keep track of item send so it will always go back to the highest stack count after the train gone, need some memory cell that keep count of the item already move and/or once reach the threchold reset itself.
3:set up manuely the condition for sending the train; if i change the list the circuit condition i put will not follow the change have to set on the second decider (the one close to the station)

i think is probably all the flaw i see right now and that one is the normal quality, for the high quality it will miss one selecter to transfer quality the one you need; connect the output of the selecter that give the stack size on the input->connect the output to the aracmetic close to the chest and also connect the chest to for request
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by mmmPI »

porcinet wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 2:22 am 1: nomber of slot available; number by chest and wagon slot, i could put 48 diffirent item in the chest but only 40 in wagon and because i put 2 stack of each item come to 20 slot each wagon.
Sorry, didn't understand what you mean there, you can use the filter combinator to find out the stacksize of item, and do some circuit logic with it, or you can limit the chests to have the same capacity as a wagon. Does that seem to help ? In a way given the blueprint it's up to you to make sure you don't set too much request that it would overflow the train.
porcinet wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 2:22 am 2: reset selected filter, cant keep track of item send so it will always go back to the highest stack count after the train gone, need some memory cell that keep count of the item already move and/or once reach the threchold reset itself.
Haha that's where the radar trick can be useful ! To simplify this part and avoid using a memory cell. From what i understand of your usecase, you could use a radar on each island. Then when you have the requests set in a constant combinator on one island, say 100 legendary accumulators. You "count" how many you already have on that island, either wiring chest or reading the logistic network, and you remove that count from the request using an arithmetic combinator. Say you have 76 of them already available, so you're missing 24, you send that number in the radar on a green wire, and on the other island from another radar, you "read" that number also on the green wire. Then you use that as the request for the train, you can use this number to control request in blue logistic chests for "24" accumulators and "trash unrequested", you can even use this to control the filter of the inserter that loads the trains, if you read train content and remove from that number. If you need 24 accumulators, and the train gets loaded, it should become 23 22 21 20 19 and so on if you load 1 by 1, until 0 and which point the train contain just the right amount to fullfill the request of the other island.

no need for memory cell, with this approach, but you may want to add some thresholds before the train is active so it doesn't move for 1 accumulator, or make it so that train exceed request by arbitrary amount that will serve as extra buffer.

porcinet wrote: Sat Nov 22, 2025 2:22 am 3:set up manuely the condition for sending the train; if i change the list the circuit condition i put will not follow the change have to set on the second decider (the one close to the station)

i think is probably all the flaw i see right now and that one is the normal quality, for the high quality it will miss one selecter to transfer quality the one you need; connect the output of the selecter that give the stack size on the input->connect the output to the aracmetic close to the chest and also connect the chest to for request
That doesn't seem to match anything i can see in the blueprint you posted, it's using mods ?
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by Tertius »

It seems you want an ordinary multi item train, and control with constant combinators what to load, and provide the items to load with the logistic network.

That's exactly what I meant that took me a very long time to get right, and if you want my solution proposal, here it is. It's a completely different approach and implementation than yours, but the input and the output is the same: define the items to load to each wagon within constant combinators (actually: logistic groups, because the item lists are used twice). It even has a trash disposal facility that will unload anything that doesn't belong to the train so it's possible to bring back items from the remote station.
The only difference is that I define exact amounts of items to load, while you define stacks to load. My proposed station might be too slow for you because it can load each wagon with one inserter only, but for my use case (building and repair support, as well as refilling my player inventory while I'm at the outskirts to build the perimeter defense) it's sufficient.

I'm sorry I'm just presenting my solution instead of trying to comment and improve yours, but you used an approach I abandoned in the past and don't intend to go any more because I feel it's not good enough. Your current approach cannot load exact amounts (only multiples of the inserter stack size), uses a huge number of combinators, stalls and stops loading if an item isn't available, doesn't control the 1st inserter swing after a train stops. The major flaw that makes it unfeasible is that it stops loading if an item isn't available. To improve these issues, you need a new approach.

Every combinator is commented.
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Corresponding unloading station. Its stock is what the local logistic network contains, not only the station chests. It opens up to get a train either if item stock goes below half of the required stock or if there is trash to carry away. An item is considered trash if its amount is more than double the required stock or if it's not a stock item at all.
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If you try the blueprints, make sure the logistics network of the unloading station is separate and doesn't link with the same logistic network the loading station is connected with - otherwise it will pull everything in that network to carry it away as trash in the 4th wagon.
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Re: Fulgora train challenge, need a better engineer then myself!

Post by porcinet »

thank you very much both of you, ill definatly check the blueprint and the radar trick sound like what i need, ill maybe need a tutorial about it to make sure to understand exactly how to use it properly.
Sorry, didn't understand what you mean there, you can use the filter combinator to find out the stacksize of item, and do some circuit logic with it, or you can limit the chests to have the same capacity as a wagon. Does that seem to help ? In a way given the blueprint it's up to you to make sure you don't set too much request that it would overflow the train


if you say the filter combinator is the green one, then yes i use it and exactly the way you say (hidden behind the pole) for me it call selector combinator, and your right it is i just need to make sure it does'nt overflow. beside i look how many item i craft for upcycle and is 63 together whit maybe 4 more if is all working
That doesn't seem to match anything i can see in the blueprint you posted, it's using mods ?
for circuit no not normally but yes i use just a little bit of mods now (abouts 120), if you talk about the option of transfer/filter quality in the green combinator is only in space age so if you play vanilla you dont have that option (just read it on wiki), if is the setup of the decider one take all different item put in the train, transfer in a VS green (VS=virtual signal) and the second take that green VS to (green>15/check mark VS to 1) so whenever i got 15 diffirent item in the train, the signal is send for the condition

again thanks a lot, im a better engieener now, still not a expect but :lol:
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