The new achievement restriction killing 100% speedruns? I have an idea.

[MrDayne]

Achievements should be a measurement of your ability as a player to achieve it, not a bothersome thing you will eventually get on a custom savegame designed to make achievements trivial. As so I find the new change quite on point. I would say if you are going to do it, do it all the way. All settings have to be default and seed has to be random. It is now or never, if you are gonna rip off that bandage, do it right.

That being said there is a huge problem with this. The 100% speedrun is gonna be much more challenging, or even worse, not fun playing anymore. There is no question here, the biggest streamers of Factorio happen to be mostly 100% speedrunners, the very category that is affected by this change.
These players are the most dedicated to the game and also the ones promoting the game the most, since they are consistently the most watched on twitch.

Nobody knows exactly how this is gonna pan out but if indeed this affects the 100% category so negatively, what if you add the speedrunning settings as a default in the map generation and allow achievements to be unlocked just for that run, not for Steam, not for the account, but trigger as completed for that run only. Once the speedrun is finished all achievements are cleansed and everybody wins?

That is it. I occasionally enjoy watching speedruns, and the 100% has been my favorite category so far. I would hate to see it die for a change that feels right and should have been there from the beginning (even though had it been there, the 100% speedrun category might have never existed).

Anyway, let me know if I explained myself correctly and if you like this idea, of if I'm just trippin here.

[eugenekay]

There are many ways to play the Game.

Speedrunning is the art of arbitrarily making up rules for why it is so important that everybody plays the game according to this one specific set of rules, that may or may not be fun, and talking trash to everybody who does not want to play by those rules. Watching somebody else stamp down pre-designed or memorized setups just to launch a rocket is not Fun for me.

I don’t get the point of rushing through the game, but that’s OK! There are other ways to play the game that don’t negatively affect you; so that’s what I do. If this statement of “play it your way” somehow offends anybody then it is time to step outside and stare at the sunshine for a while.

Good Luck!

[MrDayne]

There are many ways to play the Game.

Speedrunning is the art of arbitrarily making up rules for why it is so important that everybody plays the game according to this one specific set of rules, that may or may not be fun, and talking trash to everybody who does not want to play by those rules. Watching somebody else stamp down pre-designed or memorized setups just to launch a rocket is not Fun for me.

I don’t get the point of rushing through the game, but that’s OK! There are other ways to play the game that don’t negatively affect you; so that’s what I do. If this statement of “play it your way” somehow offends anybody then it is time to step outside and stare at the sunshine for a while.

Good Luck!

I don't understand where you are going with this. I know most of the speedrunners, I've never seen any of them trash talk anybody else. If anything they are very cooperative with each other.
It's like you understand that people should play the game their way but you are against speedrunners playing it their way? To be clear, I am not a speedrunner and I hardly ever take part in their streams either, but I understand how massive their communities are. The top 3 100% speedrunners probably have more than half the average viewers of Factorio in Twitch.
Your answer is quite confusing.

Good luck to you too, I guess.

[eugenekay]

I don't understand where you are going with this. I know most of the speedrunners, I've never seen any of them trash talk anybody else. If anything they are very cooperative with each other.
It's like you understand that people should play the game their way but you are against speedrunners playing it their way?

I am not “going” anywhere - my points are stated plainly and completely; there is no Evidence required for an Opinion. There are many controversial High-Score & Speedrunning video game dramas through history - such as the infamous Billy Mitchell - because Leaderboards are a natural thing for everybody to stare at and argue about Legitimacy. This phenomenon exists in all real-world Fantasy Sports leagues too. I don’t see the Point in racing through a Game, nor in following the “community” of fans for such performances. If you do: have fun! But I only find Comedy in pages upon pages of discussing the fine points of whether it is “fair” to move a Map Generation settings slider from 100% or not…

This is the Ideas & Suggestions forum. You should reasonably expect a few counter-opinions to be posted - and for the possibility that the Idea will be completely abandoned.

[mmmPI]

There are many controversial High-Score & Speedrunning video game dramas through history - starting with Billy Mitchell - because Leaderboards are a natural thing for everybody to stare at. I don’t see the Point in racing through a Game, nor in following the “community” of fans for such performances. If you do: have fun! But I only find Comedy in pages upon pages of discussing the fine points of whether it is “fair” to move a Map Generation settings slider from 100% or not…

I have no idea who Billy Mitchell is, but heard of many positive outcome from the speedrunning scene in general, charities mostly, and seeing games of my childhood beeing absolutely demolished i found hilarious, the chatter is casual and you can learn a lot about the game and its development, from a coding perspective, when speedrunners uses the technicals to achieve something, or when they try to fill in things that would be repetitive of tedious with jokes and trivia about the community over the years, all this while beeing focus on the game is very impressive and makes up for what i found very high quality content on the internet. Lot of time invested and skill display in a comparatively very short time is always impressive to me, like "mastery".

You are saying things about "speedrunners" the same way some people say "video game make people violent" but then you have players that only play farm simulator or the sims or factorio !

[eugenekay]

I don’t see the Point in racing through a Game, nor in following the “community” of fans for such performances. If you do: have fun!

You are saying things about "speedrunners" the same way some people say "video game make people violent" but then you have players that only play farm simulator or the sims or factorio !

So are you having Fun watching the Speedruns or not? If you are, then why are you telling me what it is that I am saying; when I have said no such thing ? It is my wish that you do have fun, in whatever way you can. If that means picking-apart Forums posts for nonexistant meaning - go for it! I simply do not understand the motivation.

I don't need to Simulate a Farm - I live on 30 acres of Rural land..... The Sims is my other favorite game. Please watch who you group together.

If you are Not having fun.... I have nothing else to offer, sorry.

Good Luck!

[mmmPI]

So are you having Fun watching the Speedruns or not?

Yes, i said i found it hilarious to see games of my childhood being destroyed, same for factorio, sometimes it makes me laugh, it brings me joy and i found it a way to learn about game's inside, i wanted to share this because it felt different than your description of how you perceive the speedrun related things, it's not only about the point of rushing the game but there's things around it that makes it "make sense" for me.

If you are, then why are you telling me what it is that I am saying; when I have said no such thing ? It is my wish that you do have fun, in whatever way you can. If that means picking-apart Forums posts for nonexistant meaning - go for it! I simply do not understand the motivation.

I don't need to Simulate a Farm - I live on 30 acres of Rural land..... The Sims is my other favorite game. Please watch who you group together.

Sorry i realize my comparaison was lazy, i meant it as "people who say video games makes players violent" are doing an over-generalization that can come accross as unfair, and probably wouldn't have done it if they were aware of the existence of games like farming simulator, or the sims , which are typically example of games that no-one would qualify as "making their player violent".

I felt part of the dismissal for the original post was made under the premisse that speedrunners have an elitist view and look down upon anyone not a speedrunner which i felt was an overgeneralization that would come accross as unfair.

[eugenekay]

I felt part of the dismissal for the original post was made under the premisse that speedrunners have an elitist view and look down upon anyone not a speedrunner which i felt was an overgeneralization that would come accross as unfair.

No - you are very Close, actually: Those who competitively participate in the Leaderboards often self-select for narcissistic traits. I do not think that this is good for Society, or for Individuals who participate in them.... but I am not a Police Officer, and there are no Laws against such things. Much like other Vice Industries, I do not throw any particular disdain upon Video Games - they are Addictive. Denying that fact does indeed lead to nonsense such as "Video Games are Violent". I think there is plenty of space for everybody to have Fun. I myself am not innocent - I think that all of the "Discussion" about Achievements by folks outside of the Software Development team is a waste of time. C'est la vie., or Live and let Live - take your pick.

[mmmPI]

No - you are very Close, actually: Those who competitively participate in the Leaderboards often self-select for narcissistic traits. I do not think that this is good for Society, or for Individuals who participate in them.... but I am not a Police Officer, and there are no Laws against such things. Much like other Vice Industries, I do not throw any particular disdain upon Video Games - they are Addictive. Denying that fact does indeed lead to nonsense such as "Video Games are Violent". I think there is plenty of space for everybody to have Fun. I myself am not innocent - I think that all of the "Discussion" about Achievements by folks outside of the Software Development team is a waste of time. C'est la vie., or Live and let Live - take your pick.

Well that's an interesting take on the matter and although it's a bit off topic i wanted to say i don't necessarily disagree with the idea that there may be certain narcissistic tendencies that may be at play regarding leaderboards, and what could become an obsession or a judgment based upon them, it's also something i find unfortunatly impossible to deny that some humans, ( me the first ) , have narcissistic tendancies and video games or sports to me are form of organized competition that can be used to 'extract' for lack of better word a positive outcome from what could otherwise be self-destructive forces. Leaderboards can create a community of people sharing the same interest in the game, and diverging interest in the leaderboard, which can serve as medium to learn how to deal with such situation in a playful way.

I do not consider video game as "vice industries" in general. Farm simulator can help people that do not have 30 acre of rural land how it look like in a virtual environment, it opens up perspectives ! You can play with players from all ages at skribbl.io or practice foreign langage, or learn new skills ! Maybe i'm no innocent either, maybe I wish more people realize the positive outcomes video-games can have the way i see them because i spend so much time around them. When i see those "positive side effect", i don't consider it a waste of time to argue/discuss to express it.

[Panzerknacker]

Agree with OP. Plz stop useless offtopic discussions again in his thread.

[Stargateur]

These players are the most dedicated to the game and also the ones promoting the game the most, since they are consistently the most watched on twitch.

Factorio existed and become famous without theses speedrunner. Plus, I don't think decision should be taken according to "what would make factorio sell better" but about "what would make factorio better as a game".

Personally, I never liked when player put all to max resource and get the achievement or turn off pollution "oh bitter are so easy !", it's always feel like cheating to me (if you do it for achievement). The only speedrun I was respecting was the "all default" speedrun random seed. I think that was a old dude doing it. But again, I don't like much speedrun, look like craziness to me to run, again and again, and again the same run to win few seconds, feel like insanity to me. Thus I like watch some from time to time, specially tool assisted speedrun cause it's often very funny. But honestly all the "world record" war they are doing feel really boring to me. It's "look at me I'm the best", is really lame and not interesting at all. And I suspect that they are upset because if thing change their rank will change, they will loose their old WR and maybe will be less good with the new rules of their own community. And as someone who like improve system I see their current behavior as negative cause they will slow down change to the game just because they don't want any change and not because the change is good or bad. They just have to lock to 2.0.44 if they want.

> All settings have to be default and seed has to be random. It is now or never, if you are gonna rip off that bandage, do it right.

That your proposal ? it's not very clear it is from your original post. Well in this case I agree BUT I think there is a problem with death world and rail world etc... This thing need to be think. I wonder if they will rework most achievement in 2.1 cause there is currently some who look outdated cause of space age.