Quality Module I research cost is "off the charts"

Place to discuss the game balance, recipes, health, enemies mining etc.
GrumpyJoe
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:10 pm
Contact:

Quality Module I research cost is "off the charts"

Post by GrumpyJoe »

:not-enough-repair-packs:
Im no game dev, therefore i wont suggest any numbers here, dont look for them!
But I think you should look into this:


While all other Tier1 modules cost 50 research, the all singing all dancing shiny new quality 1 module cost 500.
While this reflects it´s usefulness (shall be seen, see below) it´s way off balance imho.

Normally i wouldn´t even look at it and just pay a little more, research cost never been an obstacle since forever, you just dont think about it with a base that could be in any YT video tutorial
Normally i wouldn´t worry, but i recently started a x100 science cost map, which makes the 10x factor very much noticable.

Now, i dont plan on using the module for the forseeable future, rocket silo is quite some way to go and the only thing I´d want early quality on would be asteroid grabbers and maybe steel power poles
But even that can wait until i start moving space platforms.
Building a resarch platform will be a big enough undertaking, i dont mind normal quality grabbers.

Therefore, researching quality mod1 could wait until i remodeled my starter base to a production level where this doesn´t cost me hours.
However, here is where it starts looking like a balancing oversight:
Qmod2 costs just as much.
The others all increase, where this doesn´t.
Qmod3 increases again.

Before you have to look at it in the wiki:
Module: Speed - Prod. - Effi - Quality
Tier 1: 50-50-50-500
Tier 2: 200-200-200-500
Tier 3: 2000-300-300-2000 yes, speed leaps too and the jump from 200 to 300 with the other ones is weird scaling!

I highly doubt these are numbers anyone ever thought about with science cost increase in mind.
Even for normal runs, normally noone but speedrunners cares.
Science is there to brute force it via the main goal early game: the factory must grow!

You typically only notice things like Rocket silo in vanilla, atomic bomb and other very late game researches. The rest is just BING BING BING NEXT!
But in a high cost scenario, when researching a small module costs half a rocket silo, which in Space Age x100 is a bigger hurdle than everything before, you definatly notice!
Last edited by GrumpyJoe on Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eugenekay
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 2:14 am
Contact:

Re: Quality Module I research cost is "off the charts"

Post by eugenekay »

Outlier opinion: 10X research cost should be the Default; I think EVERYTHING is too cheap to research. When playing “straight through” (not using the Editor mode or slowing down the Tick rate) I will always run out of Red/Green technologies to research before I am “ready to use” all of the things which are Unlocked…. Encountering a properly expensive technology (like Quality) actually fills me with a feeling of Excitement and future Reward: my factory must grow!

Or to put it another way: I am a slow player; I like watching the machinery operate. If you have turned up the Tech costs to 100x or 1000x… the numbers will be big?
GrumpyJoe
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Quality Module I research cost is "off the charts"

Post by GrumpyJoe »

eugenekay wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:47 pm Outlier opinion: 10X research cost should be the Default; I think EVERYTHING is too cheap to research.
Thats actually the reason i chose the x100.
Your entire post actually, i just like to highlight the most important part by deleting the rest.

I too think the base game should be x10 by default, with a "standard" setup it feels exactly like you said.
I´m in the process of preparing an ad post on the main discussion forum to promote that playstyle.
It feels far more relaxed this way and a "megabase", however you may define such a thing, has an actual purpose beside "number go up".
Chosing what science is next actualy has a meaning. Ever had to wait 40 minutes after you get personal batteries and solar panels to actually use them when some equipment not researched yet?
I almost made 40h edge of solar system in my 2nd playthrough and now im at my first platform at 70h, with lots of waiting, i could have scaled up alot.

And i think a x100 or 1000x map is something the devs should always play when releasing/changing for balancing reasons.
Something you barely notice in standard becomes rather obvious when cost are scaled up
Post Reply

Return to “Balancing”