Space science distribution for 2.0

[Th3Grat3fulDad]

Hi,

I return to Factorio every year or so to work on my one big base. I´ll try Space Age eventually, but first I want my old base to work in 2.0

While I have adapted to most changes (I think), I am completely puzzled by the new Space Science logic. It took me a while to figure out why no rockets are launching anymore (new recipe, no more taking things out, building a landing pad). Thats all solved now, but now I have ONE landing pad and 8 widely separated science centers that used to independently lauch rockets and produce infinite science.

I just dont get what the new mega base concept is? All white science has to go to one bottleneck? So, do you now just build one science lab area and bring everything there? (my save game has about 400 science labs).

This seems like a much more disruptive change than any previous updates. How are other old mega bases handling this? Or is everyone just starting from scratch?

Thanks

[Tertius]

Megabasing is much different, at least with the Space Age expansion. You don't build vast areas of production to circumvent the blue belt throughput bottleneck and distributed areas to circumvent the train congestion bottleneck (at least this is what bottlenecked my megabase). The tools in Space Age for megabasing are the new green belts (60/s) and the new stack inserter (builds tiny stacks of 4 items on a belt instead of just 1 item. This means the maximum throughput of one belt is not 1 * 45/s = 45/s any more but instead 4 * 60/s = 240/s. New machines are faster and have integrated productivity bonus, so you need much less input items, so you don't need that much input items to get the same output. The machines can also run much faster due to the quality mechanics.
Train congestion is a thing of the past due to requiring less input items due to the elevated rails, with which you can build crossings that don't slow down trains that much.

So overall, you achieve the same with vastly less machines and vastly less footprint. You don't need to distribute that much as before. Instead, there is inherent distribution over all planets, because for the final infinite research you need items which have all their own planet where they have to be be crafted exclusively.
Due to the limitation of one cargo landing pad per planet, the final lab area where you bring all science packs together is one central area nearby.

The one cargo landing pad is not that much of a bottleneck, because you're able to extend it with cargo bays, and every cargo bay not only adds inventory space but also adds one more slot for deliveries from space, so more deliveries can take place in parallel. However, I don't saw it in a maximum throughput situation. May be it's an issue, but I didn't see many complaints in the forum about the general limitation, so it seems to work in general. The devs improved delivery speed with some patches.

If you stick with 2.0 without Space Age, you cannot profit from all these changes. A distributed lab design isn't well supported. If you have distributed labs, you have to ship the space science packs from the central landing pad to your lab outposts, similar to other material you ship there.

In my opinion, retire your old map and start a new one from scratch with Space Age. It feels like a new game with the expansion.

[NineNine]

Megabasing is much different, at least with the Space Age expansion. You don't build vast areas of production to circumvent the blue belt throughput bottleneck and distributed areas to circumvent the train congestion bottleneck (at least this is what bottlenecked my megabase). The tools in Space Age for megabasing are the new green belts (60/s) and the new stack inserter (builds tiny stacks of 4 items on a belt instead of just 1 item. This means the maximum throughput of one belt is not 1 * 45/s = 45/s any more but instead 4 * 60/s = 240/s. New machines are faster and have integrated productivity bonus, so you need much less input items, so you don't need that much input items to get the same output. The machines can also run much faster due to the quality mechanics.
Train congestion is a thing of the past due to requiring less input items due to the elevated rails, with which you can build crossings that don't slow down trains that much.

So overall, you achieve the same with vastly less machines and vastly less footprint. You don't need to distribute that much as before. Instead, there is inherent distribution over all planets, because for the final infinite research you need items which have all their own planet where they have to be be crafted exclusively.
Due to the limitation of one cargo landing pad per planet, the final lab area where you bring all science packs together is one central area nearby.

The one cargo landing pad is not that much of a bottleneck, because you're able to extend it with cargo bays, and every cargo bay not only adds inventory space but also adds one more slot for deliveries from space, so more deliveries can take place in parallel. However, I don't saw it in a maximum throughput situation. May be it's an issue, but I didn't see many complaints in the forum about the general limitation, so it seems to work in general. The devs improved delivery speed with some patches.

If you stick with 2.0 without Space Age, you cannot profit from all these changes. A distributed lab design isn't well supported. If you have distributed labs, you have to ship the space science packs from the central landing pad to your lab outposts, similar to other material you ship there.

In my opinion, retire your old map and start a new one from scratch with Space Age. It feels like a new game with the expansion.

Great post. I agree 100%.

I ran into the same sort of question. I also started a new megabase design (I usually do massive train grids) on Nauvis, and then as I progressed in SA, I realized that it doesn't really make any sense or is necessary. Since I've completed the game, I've found myself working on making Legendary everything, which also doesn't require megabasing.

[computeraddict]

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You both missed the point. He's not on Space Age, just base game 2.0.

Hi,

I return to Factorio every year or so to work on my one big base. I´ll try Space Age eventually, but first I want my old base to work in 2.0

While I have adapted to most changes (I think), I am completely puzzled by the new Space Science logic. It took me a while to figure out why no rockets are launching anymore (new recipe, no more taking things out, building a landing pad). Thats all solved now, but now I have ONE landing pad and 8 widely separated science centers that used to independently lauch rockets and produce infinite science.

I just dont get what the new mega base concept is? All white science has to go to one bottleneck? So, do you now just build one science lab area and bring everything there? (my save game has about 400 science labs).

This seems like a much more disruptive change than any previous updates. How are other old mega bases handling this? Or is everyone just starting from scratch?

Thanks

The landing pad throughput is pretty high, especially if you augment all the inserters with bots for extraction. I'd just refactor by treating it as just another item to deliver to each science module.