Quality should increase train wagons capacity.

[Thom II]

Space age is good to belts and production and inserters, but trains seem to be left behind (aside from the minor benefit from quality fuel). I'm trying to make a rail base, but with the throughput of stacked turbo belts and how compact quality and/or beaconed production is, I'm struggling to justify ferrying any intermediates around. I keep ending up with massive stations supplying tiny factories, which have to be kinda far apart to accommodate distance between stations and rail intersections and the trains only end up solving the problems they introduced.

So I'm thinking, cause trains are fun and everything else is stronger now, they could do with a wee bit of being stronger as well. One suggestion I have is have quality boost wagon capacity (like cargo bays). And if it seems silly to have ordinary locomotives pulling cargo wagons of legend, they could gain weight, while having quality boost locomotive locomotion (counting as more locomotives for same fuel consumption, same as quality benefits for most things).

That or just buff them.

Or do nothing. But if you think the belt-train power balance was fine before, belts are a great deal stronger now, so I think trains deserve nice things.

[AileTheAlien]

If it seems silly to have ordinary locomotives pulling cargo wagons of legend, higher-quality wagons could gain weight. Higher-quality locomotives could be more powerful.

If quality made cargo wagons heavier, quality would have to boost locomotives more than the gained weight, otherwise legendary locomotives pulling legendary wagons would look the same as lower tiers of matched locomotives and wagons. So I wouldn't add a weight penalty, and just make quality boost wagons and locomotives.

[Thom II]

Oh yeah, that makes more sense.

[functional]

Why?

With Space Age, potential throughput has increased drastically due to new tier of belts and stacking. Where previous max throughput per a single belt was 45/s, the new limit is 240/s. Quality changes to inserters also help you to reach these ridiculous levels quite easily.

Trains—in particular cargo trains—have difficulties in keeping up with this new level of throughput. Having quality affect wagon capacity it under standard multiplier (up to 2.5x) would help trains at least slightly here. Otherwise trains, by comparison, remain mostly the same as before besides fluid wagon capacity doubling. While bridges allow better throughput in intersections, intersections themselves rarely were the issue before Space Age assuming one was designed properly.

[Wappinhat]

It would be great if train wagon + fluid + storage tanks https://wiki.factorio.com/Storage_tank etc size increased

Storage chests were gladly adjusted

[AileTheAlien]

Definitely a +1 for quality improving cargo / liquid storage tanks on trains!

[NGMZero]

that would leave storage tanks

[AileTheAlien]

that would leave storage tanks

Oh yeah, improving those would be nice too! I could totally reduce the size of my acid-storage on Nauvis.

[SHADOW13]

+1

also locomotives should increase max speed/acceleration with quality as well

[jopo_jp]

+1

For me too

[functional]

+1

also locomotives should increase max speed/acceleration with quality as well

Technically it already does, because it does so for the fuel. While this may seem trivial, after playing with legendary fuel the difference is absolutely bonkers. Of course, that requires you to keep making legendary fuel.

[spacedog]

+1, but I won't hold my breath. I think the devs secretly hate trains.

I agree it's completely nonsensical that they increased chest capacity with quality, and not cargo wagon capacity. 99% of rail setups involve trains loading from chests. With the larger capacity chests, now we just need more trains to empty them. It's lame that we have to run 2.5x as many trains to empty the same amount of chests. I find I'm just running long turbo belts in a lot of places I would have previously used trains.

Storage tanks also deserve the same buff, but the tiny cargo wagons are 100x more annoying.

[Orum]

I'm in the same boat. I have no idea why they increased chest size with quality, but then left storage tanks, cargo wagons, and fluid wagons untouched? It doesn't make any sense.

[Khazul]

Being selfish and just thinking about my train network and the way I use stops and little circuits to auto-set priorities and limits based upon how much cargo space in boxes vs the train, then I would never use this - too much trouble because there is no way to specify that this stop can accept a train right now with this much space in it per carriage for this cargo.

I also know for a fact that many other players do an almost identical thing with their stops for the same reason, so I'm not sure they would use this either.

OTOH if trains got a significant overhaul that allowed for much richer signalling and reading of sizes along with interrupts condition for how much space they have in their carriages then it becomes useuable.

I would also add a caveat that all carriage must be of the same quality. Probably easier to just state that the entire train must be of the same quality as this constraint would allow for a simple implementation of extra signaling and/or interrupts for train capacity.

[Khazul]

Storage tanks also deserve the same buff, but the tiny cargo wagons are 100x more annoying.

As soon as they cranked up the fluid wagon capacity, I made a mod to increase the the storage tank to 50K as well as it just broke blueprint that depend on 2 tanks having more space than a wagon for setting limits/priorities etc. II never understood the point of the change TBH and would have been just as happy had they left them at 25K or they had at least done both. 4 tanks per carriage per stop is just a space hog.

[zzy8570860]

Whether to consider adding quality effect to improve capacity

[Hares]

Can you explain the topic more?
Why do you think they are too small for DLC?
Why do you think this should be changed?
What items do you want to transport on rails?

Also, about quality -- it's dual-edged blade. On one side, you add higher-tier wagons. Countrary, it requires changing logic on train stops for calculating dynamic train limit as one wagon can now be > 40 stacks.

[danbopes]

Related: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=119199

[zzy8570860]

Can you explain the topic more?
Why do you think they are too small for DLC?
Why do you think this should be changed?
What items do you want to transport on rails?

Also, about quality -- it's dual-edged blade. On one side, you add higher-tier wagons. Countrary, it requires changing logic on train stops for calculating dynamic train limit as one wagon can now be > 40 stacks.

I didn't use complicated circuit control.
I'm just used for transporting ores.
The new quality Bulk inserter and Turbo transport belt can empty the train in a flash.
Trains in the buffer zone were too late to arrive.

[Hares]

Without trains limit control, trains would arrive to the closest train stop and ignore the actual demand, resulting in resource overflow in some places and starving in other, i.e. they might arrive to almost depleted mine and wait there for two minutes (together with 4 other trains), or never deliver iron ore to steel production because all is delivered to plates production (for example!)