Analog Circuits - Advanced power systems

[MadZuri]

In my quest to perfect my backup power system, I invented what is basically an op-amp:

spoiler

I have it set up currently in subtraction mode. There are 3 power systems shown, A, B, and C. A is set up to always provide max power. B is connected to the main grid. C powers the bootstrap pumps. I have 22 lines of 1/14/10 steam systems, with a total of 44 pumps.

How is it analog? The portion of water flowing down through the boilers is proportional to the available power of A minus B. Since A always has power, if there is only 50% power available to B (main grid) half the water flows through the boilers and the result is half max heated water. The 'bootstrap' pumps provide the amplification. At 50% power available from the steam engines, the pumps operate at 50% and the huge array of steam generators output 50% of their max. All you need to do is add some dummy load to the bootstrap line so that the max output of the op-amp is exactly the power drawn. I found it easier to limit the number of boilers on the op-amp

This works because pumps provide 30 water/s (proportional to the available power) and steam engines consume up to 6 water/s [see below edit], regardless of the temperature of the water.

More advanced circuits could be made, but my mission is accomplished and quest completed.

Edit: If you want the power system to turn on before the accumulators run out, place an accumulator filter between power pole B and the main power grid.

Important explanation of water consumption mechanics of steam engines: Steam engines consume water proportional to the amount of the available power they are producing. To make the steam engines consume exactly 6 water/s all the time, they must either have dummy loads attached (increasing power draw) or have colder water (fewer boilers to reduce available power). For instance, if 5 steam engines has 1 boiler (390 kW available power) and has 4 small pumps (90 kW) attached as a power draw, each steam engine will consume 2.3 water/s. (total of about 11.5 water/s)

[DaveMcW]

steam engines always consume 5 water/s, regardless of the temperature of the water.

Typo, should be 6 water/s.

[MadZuri]

steam engines always consume 5 water/s, regardless of the temperature of the water.

Typo, should be 6 water/s.

Corrected, thank you.

[MadZuri]

What do you do with analog circuits? ...put them in a negative feedback loop and watch them oscillate. Good times, but I feel like I've wasted a day.

[-root]

wow. genius Zuri, absolute genius.

[MeduSalem]

This thing is brilliant...

Wish I'd find Solar Farms more appealing or more of a challenge... but I find their plop&forget strategy with nearly no downsides whatsoever apart from massive waste of space pretty much boring gameplay. For some reason I find Steam Engines powered by Solid Fuel finding the right balance in the oil industry much more fun. oO



That's why I'm using currently 480 Steam Engines in either 1/14/10 configurations or 2/28/20 configurations, depending on the space I've available. At least I always funnel 2 pumps (the ones placed on water, not to be confused with small pumps) together into one pipe because I just hate the massive pipe mess. But then again I'm playing with settings where oil is not completely scarce so I'm perfectly able to run this ridiculous powerplant by oil alone.

[MadZuri]

REDACTED

[Finndibaenn]

I feel i'm being dense, but i don't understand how the pumps prevent the water from flowing from the tanks to the boilers, would anyone care to explain ?

[MadZuri]

It is actually a unique attribute of storage tanks. You can completely starve out the other output pipes if you have a pump pulling directly from the tank. I've designed systems for oil before using this mechanic to preferentially send oil products to certain things and only send them out the other way when the line is completely filled. But yes, this only works because of the tank mechanics.

[Finndibaenn]

ok, got that... however as you're continuously pumping new water in the tank, and sending it down short cirtuiting the boilers , you're still sending the water through the engines, and then through the boilers before going back in the tank right ?
so ... why don't the boilers heat it bfefore it returns to the tanks ?

[MadZuri]

The stream engines consume 6 water/s, and pumps push or allow a max of 30 water/s. With the 'subtractor' pump fully powered, no water should ever make it to the boilers. The tank should always remain at a steady 15C unless you've screwed something up. Go ahead and try it I have noticed that upon initial setup, the water surge does have a strange effect, and you get water flowing where it shouldn't, but after that it should equalize and work as intended.

[DaveMcW]

Here is an easy way to turn your existing steam engines into backup generators.

Start with a 5x2 layout:

power1.jpg (290.15 KiB) Viewed 23458 times

Then move the offshore pump up 1 tile and add the other stuff. Shift+click to disconnect the power pole next to the pumps.

power2.jpg (299.43 KiB) Viewed 23458 times

You will need add some extra accumulators to your network to balance the power spikes.

[Finndibaenn]

The stream engines consume 6 water/s, and pumps push or allow a max of 30 water/s. With the 'subtractor' pump fully powered, no water should ever make it to the boilers. The tank should always remain at a steady 15C unless you've screwed something up. Go ahead and try it I have noticed that upon initial setup, the water surge does have a strange effect, and you get water flowing where it shouldn't, but after that it should equalize and work as intended.

ok, got it.
THis means you need to have enought steam engines to consume all the water ... that's probably where i got it wrong !

[kenbarby]

I'm trying to get this op-amp to work, but I'm experiencing "glitches" in the waterflow. Sometimes it seems theres a small drain on the watertank that causes backflow through the boilers.
This in turn causes some hot water to filter into the tank, heating it up by 1 or 2 degrees, flooding the system with 16-17 degree water, which will start the steamengines powering the bootstrap pumps.
Any idea's anyone? Here's a screenshot of my setup:

spoiler

opamp.png (2.97 MiB) Viewed 23165 times

[DaveMcW]

You need 2 connected storage tanks and 2 small pumps, because small pumps have half the capacity of an offshore pump.

[kenbarby]

I was using a small pump to limit the amount of water going into the tank at the exact same rate it was being pumped out.
But just to satisfy my curiosity I adjusted my setup to reflect DaveMcW's advice (and MadZuri's earlier screenshot):

double pumps

opamp-doublepumps.png (2.12 MiB) Viewed 23141 times

But unfortunately I'm still seeing the same results (hot water from the boilers feeding back into the tank(s).

[DaveMcW]

Try connecting the boilers to the opposite end of the steam engines.

[MadZuri]

There is either not enough power draw, or too many boilers, in that self-contained system. Each boilers can support 13 pumps, so unless you have 65 lines up there, you're heating up the water too much. Steam engines behave oddly in small systems like that. They will actually consume less than 6 water/s if they are operating under max available capacity. Either add dummy load or reduce boilers so that the steam engines are always operating at max available capacity to prevent heated water from entering the storage tank.

It wasn't necessary to add a second tank and second pump, it was correctly limited to 30 water/s inputting in the tank with the small pump between offshore pump and the storage tank.

[kenbarby]

MadZuri's last response was indeed what was wrong with the system. After reducing the boilers to 1 and adding additional dummy load (2 radars for now) the system starting working as intended.

Thank you guys so much for your help!

[roy7]

Steam engines behave oddly in small systems like that. They will actually consume less than 6 water/s if they are operating under max available capacity.

What happens is that steam engines will use the full 6 water/s if the water is not fully heated (to pull in hotter water), but if the water is already at max temp it will only consume what it needs based on power demand.