[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

[BlueTemplar]

- Starting technology level
+ Green Algae processing
+ Arboretum

Watch out, in late 0.16 you also needed to research Farming (Compost for Soil), Washing (Mud for Soil), Steel and everything for T2 circuits to be able to make wood from A(r)boretums...

[gxblp]

I was thinking of adding some quickstart options:

- landfill (pulldown for 1-100k)

You simply get more landfill so you can expand easier.

- spaceship reactor power (pulldown 5-100MW)
- spaceship reactor halftime (pulldown for 1-10h)

Spaceship stuff is a replacement for wind-generators? Look's awesome

[raisins]

Got my old save working, resuming my 0.16 seablock factory... plastic and brass underground pipe has exactly one less length now. NotLikeThis. This is a spectacular troll on my existing spaghetti.

Who is the sadist behind this one, Bob or Angel? Or a @Trainwreck tweak an update broke?

[minno]

- spaceship reactor power (pulldown 5-100MW)
- spaceship reactor halftime (pulldown for 1-10h)

There would be a spaceship wreck that acts as a power generator. The first setting is for how much power it can produce and the second how long it will last. At minimum setting it produces 5MW at the start but gradually drops to 2.5MW after an hour of use, 1.25MW after 2 and so on. So a big boost at the start but you have to replace it with your own power production over time.

A giant pre-charged accumulator with a low charge/discharge rate would work for starting power too. In fact, it looks like input and output limits are specified separately, so you can set it to have a zero or very low charge rate and then a discharge rate on par with what the starting wind turbines currently give. Then use a script to save its power level when it's picked up and restore it when it's placed, so people don't accidentally lose it all, and to destroy it when it's depleted and it isn't useful anymore.

An exponentially-decaying power producer will also give a finite amount of energy, but this way it won't force people to start supplementing it when they don't have good power production tech, but still gives a visible time limit on how long they can keep using it.

[mexmer]

Got my old save working, resuming my 0.16 seablock factory... plastic and brass underground pipe has exactly one less length now. NotLikeThis. This is a spectacular troll on my existing spaghetti.

Who is the sadist behind this one, Bob or Angel? Or a @Trainwreck tweak an update broke?

check your mod setting
brass pipes are from bobs
i remember reading somewhere, that mod settings sometimes doesn't apply from save, when you use sync mod with save. so you will most likely need to change pipe length to some different value (in mod setting), then set it back to desired value.

[mrvn]

- spaceship reactor power (pulldown 5-100MW)
- spaceship reactor halftime (pulldown for 1-10h)

There would be a spaceship wreck that acts as a power generator. The first setting is for how much power it can produce and the second how long it will last. At minimum setting it produces 5MW at the start but gradually drops to 2.5MW after an hour of use, 1.25MW after 2 and so on. So a big boost at the start but you have to replace it with your own power production over time.

A giant pre-charged accumulator with a low charge/discharge rate would work for starting power too. In fact, it looks like input and output limits are specified separately, so you can set it to have a zero or very low charge rate and then a discharge rate on par with what the starting wind turbines currently give. Then use a script to save its power level when it's picked up and restore it when it's placed, so people don't accidentally lose it all, and to destroy it when it's depleted and it isn't useful anymore.

An exponentially-decaying power producer will also give a finite amount of energy, but this way it won't force people to start supplementing it when they don't have good power production tech, but still gives a visible time limit on how long they can keep using it.

I was thinking of using an accumulator too. Or a series of them. The decay would be made by swapping the accumulator to one with lower discharge rate as I don't think you can modify that at runtime. The intent is also to replace the wind turbines with something that doesn't need as much space. Because a windfarm for 100MW power at start would be huge and annoying to build by hand. Would use up all the landfill even with extra landfill added.

[Shakes]

Another balance change I make locally to the mod that I think makes sense to include is to change the usage of gold in blue science to bronze. Gold is already used in the circuits that science requires, so really doesn't provide any extra challenge to produce in plate form, where as bronze is basically unused in seablock as it stands. Making this change doesn't really make a huge difference to the overall balance of the mod but fixes one of the metals being basically useless.

[BlueTemplar]

Gold is already used in the circuits that science requires

No, which one ? You might be confusing with modules ?
Is bronze used in no non-military buildings other than (pretty optional) pipes ?

[Shakes]

Gold is already used in the circuits that science requires

No, which one ? You might be confusing with modules ?

Don't have 0.16 installed anymore so working from memory - Processing units, which are used in science, need gold. Gold is also needed for catalysts. So I feel like gold is already useful enough without having to be an ingredient in blue science directly.

Is bronze used in no non-military buildings other than (pretty optional) pipes ?

Again working from memory, but I think it's basically just used for pipes. I think in the base bob's game it might be used in the reworked belt recipes etc that seablock opts out of?

[BlueTemplar]

You've confused Advanced Circuits with Processing Units (available later).
Hovewer, gold (and Advanced Circuits) is indeed used in the Atomic Sensor Array and Femto Laser Foci, (sub)components of Blue Science.
Also, no catalyst seems to use gold.

Good point about bronze being used in the "fast" tier of belt/inserter overhaul, which is disabled by default already in bob's mods
(I always turn it on, as well as at least the base alien artifacts, bob's mods just seem incomplete without it !).
Maybe they *should* be used in more stuff ?

[Shakes]

You've confused Advanced Circuits with Processing Units (available later).
Hovewer, gold (and Advanced Circuits) is indeed used in the Atomic Sensor Array and Femto Laser Foci, (sub)components of Blue Science.
Also, no catalyst seems to use gold.

I think you're misunderstanding the point I'm making - I'm not saying that gold is specifically used in the circuits used for blue science, I'm saying gold is used in science full stop so it seems to me better to require a different metal rather than requiring gold in multiple places.

I had in mind that one of the catalysts was gold + silver, but maybe that's just my mind associating the precious metals and thinking they should be used together.

[mexmer]

You've confused Advanced Circuits with Processing Units (available later).
Hovewer, gold (and Advanced Circuits) is indeed used in the Atomic Sensor Array and Femto Laser Foci, (sub)components of Blue Science.
Also, no catalyst seems to use gold.

I think you're misunderstanding the point I'm making - I'm not saying that gold is specifically used in the circuits used for blue science, I'm saying gold is used in science full stop so it seems to me better to require a different metal rather than requiring gold in multiple places.

I had in mind that one of the catalysts was gold + silver, but maybe that's just my mind associating the precious metals and thinking they should be used together.

i reduced gold requirement in sct recipes somewhat in 0.17 but don't expect huge changes.
yes gold is required a lot, but there is not much alternatives, there is no platinum or other rare metal, that can replace it ... and silver is not proper replacement. although for optical components i wast thinking about silver, but they already have glass in ...

[RemiFlan]

yes gold is required a lot, but there is not much alternatives, there is no platinum or other rare metal, that can replace it ... and silver is not proper replacement. although for optical components i wast thinking about silver, but they already have glass in ...

Platinum assets are already in game. It has been speculated that it will be the result of Cupric line, like Chrome is the result of Ferrous line. Might as well bother Angel for a wee bit to finish it eh.




What is the point of KS Power in this modpack? Bob adds tiered liquid fuel gens which imo work out nicer than KS's Oil Burner and Diesel line, and Burner isnt really needed. You could argue that it is there as solid fuel drain, but such drains are mostly used by people who dont want it to go to waste, and 25% eff is very wastefull, might as well use steam boilers. With how powerfull trees are you can just skip liquid fuel altogether to nuclear anyways.

SeaBlock mod removes a lot of redundant recipes, items and techs, but not all. Might as well remove Mining drill (it is actually commented out in the code) and its infinite tech, Bob's Pumps (+Water Bore tech, also if you mess up your mod settings it activates its recipes and you get an OP source of pure and lithia water so even more reason to remove it), Pumpjack, Coal liquefication tech, Bottled Gas tech(cant even research it despite green science being the only prerequisite).

Why lower Bob's Beacon power to base value? I agree that 4 slots at 100% eff at t3 seems a bit too good, but 3\50 or even 3\75 seems more appropriate for t3.

[Metuk]

Trainwreck, there was a balance discussion thread on the subreddit you might find interesting. https://www.reddit.com/r/Seablock/comme ... on_thread/

[Xeorm]

What is the point of KS Power in this modpack? Bob adds tiered liquid fuel gens which imo work out nicer than KS's Oil Burner and Diesel line, and Burner isnt really needed. You could argue that it is there as solid fuel drain, but such drains are mostly used by people who dont want it to go to waste, and 25% eff is very wastefull, might as well use steam boilers. With how powerfull trees are you can just skip liquid fuel altogether to nuclear anyways.

SeaBlock mod removes a lot of redundant recipes, items and techs, but not all. Might as well remove Mining drill (it is actually commented out in the code) and its infinite tech, Bob's Pumps (+Water Bore tech, also if you mess up your mod settings it activates its recipes and you get an OP source of pure and lithia water so even more reason to remove it), Pumpjack, Coal liquefication tech, Bottled Gas tech(cant even research it despite green science being the only prerequisite).

Why lower Bob's Beacon power to base value? I agree that 4 slots at 100% eff at t3 seems a bit too good, but 3\50 or even 3\75 seems more appropriate for t3.

KS power's wind power is pretty nice. Beats using solar panels for a starting power source.

[raisins]

yes gold is required a lot, but there is not much alternatives, there is no platinum or other rare metal, that can replace it ... and silver is not proper replacement. although for optical components i wast thinking about silver, but they already have glass in ...

Platinum assets are already in game. It has been speculated that it will be the result of Cupric line, like Chrome is the result of Ferrous line. Might as well bother Angel for a wee bit to finish it eh.




What is the point of KS Power in this modpack? Bob adds tiered liquid fuel gens which imo work out nicer than KS's Oil Burner and Diesel line, and Burner isnt really needed. You could argue that it is there as solid fuel drain, but such drains are mostly used by people who dont want it to go to waste, and 25% eff is very wastefull, might as well use steam boilers. With how powerfull trees are you can just skip liquid fuel altogether to nuclear anyways.

SeaBlock mod removes a lot of redundant recipes, items and techs, but not all. Might as well remove Mining drill (it is actually commented out in the code) and its infinite tech, Bob's Pumps (+Water Bore tech, also if you mess up your mod settings it activates its recipes and you get an OP source of pure and lithia water so even more reason to remove it), Pumpjack, Coal liquefication tech, Bottled Gas tech(cant even research it despite green science being the only prerequisite).

Why lower Bob's Beacon power to base value? I agree that 4 slots at 100% eff at t3 seems a bit too good, but 3\50 or even 3\75 seems more appropriate for t3.

The lowest burner generator is admittedly shit. I haven't redone the math for 0.17 but I think KS oil boiler was quite a good scalable power option in the red-green science range? Bob's oil burners are less efficient but more compact which is a fine niche.

Tree farms and solar are the realistic alternatives, or am I forgetting something else?

Normal tree farms are capped by the trees you find. You need some actual wood so you might as will build it and burn the excess but it's not scaleable.

Solar is fine but you need a ton of space which is tedious. And for the night you still need a mixed system or plastic for accumulators. And when you set up petrochem or farming for plastic you could also get fuel oil...

[RemiFlan]

KS power's wind power is pretty nice. Beats using solar panels for a starting power source.

Yeah, completely forgot about those. But who uses them beyond start anyways? Can incorporate something simmilar into SeaBlock mod for early game.

The lowest burner generator is admittedly shit. I haven't redone the math for 0.17 but I think KS oil boiler was quite a good scalable power option in the red-green science range? Bob's oil burners are less efficient but more compact which is a fine niche.

IMO if you go with "tiered" theme throughout whole game anyways, adding non-tiered gen while there is already a tiered alternative seems like a bad idea.

Tree farms and solar are the realistic alternatives, or am I forgetting something else?

Normal tree farms are capped by the trees you find. You need some actual wood so you might as will build it and burn the excess but it's not scaleable.

Solar is fine but you need a ton of space which is tedious. And for the night you still need a mixed system or plastic for accumulators. And when you set up petrochem or farming for plastic you could also get fuel oil.

Scaling wood or even liquid is pointless with nuclear loops being a lot more compact and should work even with default kovarex(just would take a lot longer to get it started), and with modded plutonium its a lot easier than that. 4 trees was enough for me to get to t1 nuclear in terms of both power and intermediates (and I skipped setting up liquid fuel too, only used solid\enriched from overflows as a small additve), and I dont think that trees are THAT rare.
As for solar, once again - nuclear solves all.

Or maybe I am too used to always thinking from endgame point of view. My goal is always getting to the last possible upgrade as soon as possible, even if it means skipping some smaller ones, trees into nuclear skipping liquid being prime example. I don't like spending a ton of time upgrading something knowing that soon a new upgrade will be avaliable and I'll have to start over again. Better get to the last one asap.

[raisins]

KS power's wind power is pretty nice. Beats using solar panels for a starting power source.

Yeah, completely forgot about those. But who uses them beyond start anyways? Can incorporate something simmilar into SeaBlock mod for early game.

The lowest burner generator is admittedly shit. I haven't redone the math for 0.17 but I think KS oil boiler was quite a good scalable power option in the red-green science range? Bob's oil burners are less efficient but more compact which is a fine niche.

IMO if you go with "tiered" theme throughout whole game anyways, adding non-tiered gen while there is already a tiered alternative seems like a bad idea.

Tree farms and solar are the realistic alternatives, or am I forgetting something else?

Normal tree farms are capped by the trees you find. You need some actual wood so you might as will build it and burn the excess but it's not scaleable.

Solar is fine but you need a ton of space which is tedious. And for the night you still need a mixed system or plastic for accumulators. And when you set up petrochem or farming for plastic you could also get fuel oil.

Scaling wood or even liquid is pointless with nuclear loops being a lot more compact and should work even with default kovarex(just would take a lot longer to get it started), and with modded plutonium its a lot easier than that. 4 trees was enough for me to get to t1 nuclear in terms of both power and intermediates (and I skipped setting up liquid fuel too, only used solid\enriched from overflows as a small additve), and I dont think that trees are THAT rare.
As for solar, once again - nuclear solves all.

Or maybe I am too used to always thinking from endgame point of view. My goal is always getting to the last possible upgrade as soon as possible, even if it means skipping some smaller ones, trees into nuclear skipping liquid being prime example. I don't like spending a ton of time upgrading something knowing that soon a new upgrade will be avaliable and I'll have to start over again. Better get to the last one asap.

Right, but nuclear is later. You made a big tree farm, then you made a bunch of naptha and plastic somehow, then you did a lot of other things, then you had nuclear. In between there was a fine section where KS was a good option.

Whether it's part of the speed run strat ideal bootstrap I have no idea, probably not. But it's not useless.

[mexmer]

yes gold is required a lot, but there is not much alternatives, there is no platinum or other rare metal, that can replace it ... and silver is not proper replacement. although for optical components i wast thinking about silver, but they already have glass in ...

Platinum assets are already in game. It has been speculated that it will be the result of Cupric line, like Chrome is the result of Ferrous line. Might as well bother Angel for a wee bit to finish it eh.

You forgetting one simple thing. Sct is not centered about seablock.
Seablock uses it as alternate science crafting approach.
It was made to works with bobs, or bobs with angels, or angels alone, there are handfull of other mod combinations but seablock will never be focus, due much different progression and constraints than normal game.

[minno]

Balance issues like that can be fixed directly in the Seablock mod if they're not an issue in normal games.