Early Building Store

[Dry Hairy Tree]

OK - now you make sense to me. You were confusing me as you're obviously intelligent but the basic point was not getting through. I was trying to find places upgrades would benefit, trying to see what glaringly obvious thing I was missing... (yes I argue, but at same time stuff is sinking in I'm complex) Having better stuff just for the sake of it is wasteful.

I just wrote to Sunbeam a company who make electric kettles. I wrote to tell them they are awesome. My last kettle lasted 20 years! My new one boils water slightly faster which, if I was catering for a crowd would matter, but is ultimately not called for. I have a car that I could throw a few tweaks into and raise the performance significantly, but the current speed limit is only 1/2 of what it can do already - no upgrade required

As for fast inserters. I make gears and circuits in my building store, I also carry them. When i want a fast inserter it's as good as done. Without carrying gears and circuits it is slow, but try it with them, no time lost. Now the plain inserters can carry two items, then three! They just became so very useful.

Much of this game was testing and tweaking new stuff. Watching the trains perform, learning to control the factory using train commands etc. But the new inserters, and the new inserter bonuses... they're game changers too.

That rocket built in 43 minutes. I could not continue that pace the blue circuits were only coming at around 670 per hour. Plastic was the limit to the whole thing which is worth noting for anyone wanting a lot of rocket production - iron/steel etc is easy to get, a large plastic supply however, takes a bit more planning. All up that game took 21 hours - not too bad for an exploratory run-through the time could have been halved easily.

I'm in a hostile world now, it's fun having the extra edge of the aliens to deal with, the building store setup is more compact, and what I wan't out it is more clearly defined (ammo, walls, belts etc). Here I think robots could really help for maintaining defense (repair mode) but as we all know when the logistics network begins to cover large distances it becomes inefficient - the major problem being robots that do not remain local to one port.

I have an idea. A series of individual roboports, separated by one square only. Now one roboport can be assigned x number of robots and they will stay there on duty like you'd hope. Should logistics require stuff from one port to another put a belt over the border.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Oh, need a bit of closure on last game first I guess...

This is how I set it up. See there's actually a ninth assembler for rocket fuel and low density structures. This is so there's spare when the rocket is made - for the satellite. Basic speed modules in assemblers, production 3 modules in the silo.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Here's the start of the Hostile world. I've figured out a sweet strategy, though it will probably only work on lower Alien settings eg normal and below - but if you're game to try it on high - have at it!

The Offensive Defense.

Get a radar up ASAP and start making turrets and ammo. As soon as you detect aliens go and kill them - before they detect you and start on your base. As the base gets larger make another radar and put them on opposing base edges, then three, then four... This will ultimately save resources and stress - less ammo needed, less chewed up stuff, less repairs... I think I'll remain proactive like this till I have solar/laser/robots combo, then the Aliens are not really an issue other than culling big herds.

I probably didn't need to defend my base so well so early but I thought of this idea after I'd put up walls/turrets.

I have SO MANY resources in this start I built a train then didn't use it (yet).

A note on inserters - the wall/brick production relies on a plain inserter (not fast) or there'd be no bricks passing down the line. When I started I put a fast inserter in to prioritize walls, now I switched as oil approaches. Wherever I can I keep it simple and with the most basic gear. In life this makes my ideas very useful, in this game I probably seem an eejit.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

I'm sure plenty of other folk have thought of proactive defense. It's easy now the turret ranges are showing. I just put down 2 turrets or more according to how many aliens are about to swarm and once the main horde has run in I walk into them dropping turrets and loading them with ammo. Still using up my old ammo - once you have a few turret/bullet upgrades it's quite easy.

The base is split down the middle by water so the train did come in handy relatively early.

I put resources on large but infrequent - this looks too frequent to me, and the oil patches are crazy.

Not a single bullet has been fired in my base. I have removed 4 alien bases as the radar revealed them. Not a single alien has even figured out my base is there - yet.

Does anyone know how the aliens spawn etc - like, do aliens beget aliens, so when a base turns up they invite their mates? Or is it just random. If it is the former, this strategy should hold well into later game. If the latter, ah well, it was a good life.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Learning a lot. Hopefully some of readers/viewers are fairly new players and are learning along with me.

There was a small alien base spawned in an area I'd recently cleared and after I'd killed them I was headed home and saw a single red spot on the map - a worm? I went to investigate. As I went towards it 3 biter spawners, 2 spitter spawners and half a dozen worms materialised only half a screen in front of me. Close call... So a solitary red dot may be indicative of a spawn site - if you catch it in time.

I still haven't had a single shot fired in my base though the spawn event mentioned above was right on the edge of my pollution so it's only a matter of time before they spawn within the cloud.

I've made a rudimentary mid-game building store. I know it could be improved a lot but let's just check out what's right about it and you can fix details as you want them. Hopefully nobody has a stroke.

The whole idea is to make building and expanding easy. The direction of this is entirely up to the player. Here's some features I've put in and why:

Building and general expansion: Assemblers, basic inserters, belts, green circuits, gears. With these in your inventory all other inserters (and many other things) craft fast.

Defense: Walls, ammo & turrets (now laser turrets).

Oil expansion: Pipes, chemical plants, and pump-jacks. I don't think I need to explain how useful this is. Pipes stack in 50's, pump-jacks in 20's, chemical plants in 10's.

Mining Expansion: Mining Drills, Electric Furnaces, Red Belts.

Rail expansion: Rail, engines.

Solar expansion: Solar panels and accumulators.

Plus some landfill - very useful, stacks as 100's.

Needs power and maybe lights, and some lube (miles away!) as ideally I'm making robots here too.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Here's some creative defense using landfill. It's nothing flash just a proof of concept - you can isolate turrrets, poles, etc in water making them (almost) invincible.

In this picture, to turn this tower off the aliens would need to chew through a defended wall, then about 8 rows of solar panels, then it will come to the pole connecting this stuff.

I have finally triggered an attack - by Aliens I haven't detected! All others are dead, but it's getting to the point it'll take too long to remain proactive killing them on sight. A vehicle would really help - like a car! Sometimes my brain is just not engaged - got my train in 1.5 hours achievement and my 1K processing units per hour achievement, so this build is better than the last without trying to be.

Anyway - check out this defense. You know you could do ALL SORTS of devious things with this landfill - so go do something awesome then come back and show me.

[Qon]

I'm considering building a whole starter base on artificial land. Witha a building store I don't need that much space anyways.

Also, landfill enabled 30 steam engines ona row.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

Yeah that's a good tip - straightening edges is way useful. I've also made a couple of paths for myself across lakes that cut down base movement considerably.

A base on a lake with thin entries/exits and some creative defenses would be hell fun to build. I'm not sure how big the local lakes are in this map but will get there.

I like the steam engines interspersed with underground pipe that's tight.

Yeah the building store does compact things a lot. I've had a thought on the whole concept - as the game progresses we move into robots. Now the building store is more valuable making things that you wouldn't have in your logistics normally. Like pumpjacks, mining equipment, etc. The toolbar and logistics inventory are typically the same, these building are not typical toolbelt fare. I rarely use logistics robots, but many people do.

If you make a decision to expand mining - it is best to drop building/solar/rail supplies back in their boxes (you can manually place them inside the restricted slots if the open slots have refilled). Basically, clean up for the operation you have planned, plus some defense/offense should it be needed. Otherwise you get overcrowded with stuff really fast. In this manner the building store can also cope with a lot more than you'd think on first glance. As you will be loading different stuff for different types of builds each time, and overflow goes back to be recycled slowing demand on the next cycle.

This building store (above) and the map with ridiculous resources has me wondering what's next for the map. Just making a rocket.... done that. Rocket production will be part of the design but I see a long game, many trains, a blueprint book, a horde of construction robots....

Are you proud that I've made my first red belt! I had 24 (I think) steel furnaces producing copper plate for my circuit machine and a yellow belt wasn't quite up to it.

[Qon]

This building store (above) and the map with ridiculous resources has me wondering what's next for the map. Just making a rocket.... done that. Rocket production will be part of the design but I see a long game, many trains, a blueprint book, a horde of construction robots....

Are you proud that I've made my first red belt! I had 24 (I think) steel furnaces producing copper plate for my circuit machine and a yellow belt wasn't quite up to it.

Sent your rocket? Megabase next: 1 rocket launch per minute. That's quite fun.
Or maybe complete the game with some challenge. The achievments are one kind but there's mods that give even more challenge flavours that are even harder and more different.

And after you've gotten used to the simplicity of just using faster belts you won't go back to cheap junk again. The simplicity of a single type and the time saved on managing your inventory gives freedom to focus on the fun things like designing complicated stuff. The basic units have their own charm though :q

[Dry Hairy Tree]

I know what comes next. you gave me the idea - combined with my original thought on the matter. This took 300 bits of landfill just to run the rail in, still don't know how big the lake is.

I'm going to ramp stone/landfill right up and make an island factory on reclaimed land. I'm going to make it as dirty as I want and encourage silly aliens to try visit. There will be nothing but death for them as they get sliced down in laser crossfire and run down by trains.

I already got all the basics for a rocket in boxes (3K blue circuits, speed modules, 10K solid fuel, plastic etc. They can wait. Exploring other research branches like all the military stuff. Loads of alien goop from my proactive approach so am getting top tier alien killing upgrades and equipment for now.

No photos of the lake set-up till it's further along. I can put a load of dirty steam engines in to start drawing aliens and power my lasers - but I got soo many solar panels already... Probably go solar if it's big enough. If I get caught on that promontory before power is up, I'm dead.

[Dry Hairy Tree]

This is what 2K landfill will buy ya. Inflation these days, sheesh.

Look, there's some aliens popping up on the shores already. Now I'm not gonna go kill these - I'm hoping to ring my base wherever possible with 'dirty lakes' that entice aliens away from home base. The theory is these spawn sites that are attracted to islands are no longer a threat, just amusement.

Islands may also be perfect for setting up flamethrower turrets which can trash your own stuff if you are not careful. But in lakes the aliens are only in one direction - on the shoreline - and you can fry those suckers at will with no penalty (other than the resources). Solar laser set ups will kill aliens indefinitely, but dirty power will attract them more. Maybe a heap of modules etc - how does one make something REALLY dirty.

I need to be doing some oil expansion but I'm enjoying this idea too much. Got plenty of everything who cares if plastic is slow for a bit the backup'll cover science. But, flamethrowers...

I want power on my island so I can start taunting shore aliens. Channeling and crossfire - making idiots of AI since the birth of RTS.

A big dirty military factory making all manner of things that shoot and sear and explode. I'm gonna build that and then test my products on hapless shore victims. See the wee bit jutting out down the bottom - am hoping I can place mines on shore from there I just forgot to do it...

Fun to be had.

[Qon]

how does one make something REALLY dirty.

More electricity used creates more pollution from polluting things like assembly machines so speedmodules are help. Also productivity modules increase pollution directly and electric usage. Boilers pollute, and so does miners and pumpjacks a fair bit. Buring down forest creates pollution but also reduces amount of pollution that will be sucked up by trees. Concrete prevents the ground from sucking up pollution.

[siggboy]

In 0.12 it was really easy to be extremely dirty just by using Productivity Module 3 a lot.

In 0.13 they've greatly nerfed the additional pollution from Prod 3, so it's become a bit more "difficult" to pollute the planet.

Mining drills pollute a lot unless you use efficiency modules, and also the boilers for steam power pollute a lot. A 150 MW power plant is already extremely dirty.

[solntcev]

Infinite pollution source: 2 assemblers: barrel and unbarrel oil in single pipe with speed modules mk3, powered by steam.

[siggboy]

Infinite pollution source: 2 assemblers: barrel and unbarrel oil in single pipe with speed modules mk3, powered by steam.

That's not infinite, when you run out of coal you won't have power to create any more pollution.

[Breith]

Didn't reply here since a while, but I still read the thread . All of what you said is interesting.

I'm not using the Building Store anymore in my new game, I switched to main bus + PnP Factory, which I like a lot. Speaking of that, I have the impression that actually building a store at the early stage of the game make me loss some time... but I probably just messed up. I didn't use it anymore as soon as I started my main bus, which is probably completely stupid because I had to build a dedicated slot to assemble all the basic components while I already had it... Had the end, I let the store rotten until I unlocked robots to take it apart. It was really stupid.

I have a lot of issues with Oil in my current game. For a unknown reason, I have almost no Oil close to my base... and even further away the Oil is never more than ~ 70%. Really bad... with a lot of bitters bases to clean to access it... Well it's a mess. I read somewhere that the spawning function was bugged after the 0.13 release, I'm probably a victim of the bug . I will probably start a new game as soon as Resource Spawner Overhaul mod is back.

[siggboy]

I will probably start a new game as soon as Resource Spawner Overhaul mod is back.

RSO is back for quite a few days already, and it works fine.

Sadly, the terrain generation (unrelated to RSO or resources) is awful right now and makes your map look like somebody barfed on it.

[Breith]

Mmm... Good to know. I'll probably start a new game this weekend then. I have to check the closest oil spot first. If it's again 6 puddles at 60% each there is no way I can continue to play this game. I spent ~ 2h to clean the bitters to access the spot with the tank... The density of bitters with the default setting is just awful when you play a solo game.

[siggboy]

The latest RSO has slightly bigger oil fields (more wells, I think the total yield has not increased), and Vanilla has greatly increased windfall oil, so I guess oil won't be a problem.

I've only started one map so far, with RSO (default settings) and I set oil richness one notch higher than the default, it did give me two wells in the starting area with >200% yield, and that's more than enough for the early game. The next oil field was still reasonably close, with 5 or 6 wells of 200%ish yield each.

I guess you'll be fine.

Also don't forget you can very easily run long pipelines now, because they've added easy pipe and underground belt dragging to 0.13 (one of the many great improvements).

This is off-topic BTW, we might want to take this to a different thread .

[Breith]

Yay, but you have to think to add a pump of two if the pipeline is too long... which is kind of annoying in the early game (need of red engine...). This is what I did on my current game (of course, the closest oil field has a poor yield AND is far away...).

Regarding the off toipc, well, I'm not sure people are talking about the Store anymore over the last ~ 4 pages. The topic is more about how to do a good early game now.... so it's not that much off topic actually .