Space Platform 101 Discussion

[qwr]

Quite opposite - it is excellent game design. In game you have factoriopedia for all items/recipes/techs and platform basics in tips and tricks. After that it is up to you how to design your platforms. And if you search for examples you will be surprised how different they could be. Full tutorial would kill most players creativity.
Though it would be nice to add "drag in space" section to tips and tricks. There is no way to learn about width factor in game itself.

I have nothing in my tips and tricks. Maybe bugged? A tutorial would make the space age a lot more bearable.

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Hmm, I just realized you don't mean your inventory with "my cargo". You want to hitch a ride with a rocket that is delivering cargo anyway, right?

Yes, that is annoying. One could explain that away saying the rocket then needs to carry life support equipment so it's full with that.

I think a better solution would be for the player to add to the weight of the rocket, well not the player itself but the inventory of the player. You should be able to take a rocket when the weight of it's cargo and the weight of your inventory is 1 ton or less.

Yes, I'm talking about riding with my cargo rocket. I don't even mind not carrying inventory since that's covered by cargo. You could allocate 100 or 150 kg for the player and armor.

[angramania]

I have nothing in my tips and tricks. Maybe bugged?

Quite possible. There are a lot of tips and tricks bug reports for recent versions. I have started in 2.07 and there are five space platform related tips.

[qwr]

I just noticed I don't have to be in space to build my space platform, I can build directly in map view...
I guess I'm so used to just using the map for viewing and building in-person

also I noticed sending stuff into space takes a whole rocket but sending stuff down is completely free. I would think there would be a small cost to dropping so much stuff to Nauvis...

[mrvn]

I just noticed I don't have to be in space to build my space platform, I can build directly in map view...
I guess I'm so used to just using the map for viewing and building in-person

also I noticed sending stuff into space takes a whole rocket but sending stuff down is completely free. I would think there would be a small cost to dropping so much stuff to Nauvis...

Given that you have iron, truster fuel and oxidizer in space it would be trivial to build some basic rockets for reentry. Would be better in many ways to have a mini rocket silo in space to manage sending items down. Like keeping a certain amount in space even when the planet requests it.

[gth]

I'm still confused on one particular point (and I know it's a basic thing, hence why I'm in the 101 thread rather than making a new topic):

• for my 1st ever platform, I built the starter pack, launch it on a rocket, and "hey presto!" - there's now a space platform above Nauvis.
  • Works well, all the buttons did what they said.
• for my 2nd platform, I build a starter pack, I click the button that says "Build new space platform" (which....doesn't).

So I figure I need to check the maps:

• I click the 1st platform name at top left of screen = yep, that's still there.
• I click the 2nd platform name = nope, that doesn't exist yet: you need to build a rocket to deliver it.
  • ...but, I've built a rocket - it's sitting in my silo on Nauvis, with a starter pack in it, waiting to go to Gleba.

Okay, perhaps I need to re-check the rocket. I click the silo and the options are there:

• I can deliver cargo -
  • to the platform above Nauvis, but-
  • ...there's no option to deliver cargo anywhere else.
• The button to build a new space platform is enabled...but I know it won't actually do so (it actually prompts to create a 3rd platform; which I'm not ready for).

...it seems like the mechanic that works for your *first* platform doesn't apply for your *second* platform.

If I had to *guess* (since there's no in-game hint or explanation of why the UI is ignoring my request to build a space platform on Gleba, nor let me launch the rocket to go there), is what it really means is I have to fly my "Nauvis-orbiting platform" over to Gleba (with a platform starter pack in the hub storage area?) and then launch the starter pack, kinda "off the edge of my flying-platform" style, which then creates my new Gleba-orbiting platform?

But I don't know any of this for sure, and that seems like a big trip to undertake without knowing how it's supposed to work. I get all the creative solutions and "eureka!" moments in this game (enjoyed over 3k hours so far but this feels like a UI obstacle more than a knowledge one. Maybe I'm just a story-campaign type that needs spoon feeding these moments - gosh knows I miss scenarios at the start + GreenFlag's mod pack.

PS: I know it's just me. But I still can't see the solution. Help.

PPS: I've already researched the Planet Discovery entries + thrusters, etc.

[kpreid]

...but, I've built a rocket - it's sitting in my silo on Nauvis, with a starter pack in it, waiting to go to Gleba.

When you choose a planet in the “New space platform” dialog, you’re choosing which planet its starter pack will be launched from. You can’t build a new platform by launching a rocket from a different planet (nor from another platform). Rocket silos only launch to the orbit of the planet they’re on, for every type of delivery. Only space platforms go between planets. In order to go to Gleba, a platform above Nauvis must use its thrusters to fly to Gleba.

[Amarula]

I'm still confused

A rocket silo is tied to a planet. So a silo on Nauvis can deliver stuff to a platform parked at Nauvis; it can create a new platform at Nauvis; it can deliver you (if you are at the silo on Nauvis) to a platform parked at Nauvis.

To create a new platform at Gleba, you need a rocket silo with rocket and starter pack on Gleba.

You can ship a starter pack from Nauvis to Gleba on a platform that can make that trip, but it will deliver the starter pack down to the surface, where it must be loaded on to a rocket on Gleba; a platform can't build a new platform.

So the pattern for a new platform is always the same: put a starter pack in a rocket here; tell the silo here to create a new platform here.

[gth]

Okay I got it now. Essentially my error was thinking my puny little Nauvis-rockets are capable of much longer travel. There's no lore shown when planets are "discovered" so I have no idea if Nauvis-to-Gleba is akin to Earth-to-Mars vs. Earth-to-Alpha-Centauri. Did I miss an explainer somewhere?

Anywho, I'll voluntarily crash down onto a new planet and get started.

Thanks folks!

[cbtmessageman]

Anywho, I'll voluntarily crash down onto a new planet and get started.

Thanks folks!

Bring a landing pad with you. It'll help when you start requesting parts for your new build. Especially with Fulgora, where your initial landing point is rarely where you want to set up a base.

[Jarolleon]

you can fit 4k wire into the rocket.

Set up a wire assembly near a bunch of rockets and let it run.

Air-to-ground shipping of Steel is free (albeit inconvenient).
Ground-to-air shipping of Copper %whatever% is not free. Given that it needs precious blue circuits, it's VERY not free, I dare say.
If, for some reason, there are no space for assemblers on the ground - Quality can help.
You still need to transfer foundations from platform to platform through ground anyway.
Self-expanding platforms will become a viable choice with advanced asteroids reprocessing tech though.

I tried this in my second playthrough, it was painfully slow at first because there was only space on the platform to place & power one crusher, smelter pair, and asteroid grabber. I think you need a few startup shipments to get on-platform steel production high enough. Fortunately Fulgora ruins provide steel and copper wire in a 1:1 ratio when you loot them.

[jim lee]

Where do we beg for platform to platform shipping of items? Seems such a waste that once you are both in orbit. You can't just slide something across without dropping it down a gravity hole (planet) then dragging it back out of the hole to another orbiting platform.

-jim lee

[NineNine]

Where do we beg for platform to platform shipping of items? Seems such a waste that once you are both in orbit. You can't just slide something across without dropping it down a gravity hole (planet) then dragging it back out of the hole to another orbiting platform.

-jim lee

I believe you ask for something like that here: viewforum.php?f=88

[SirSmuggler]

How does interrupts work with space platforms? I assumed they would be the same as for trains, only checked when leaving a station/planet. But it seems to be different for space platforms as my Shattered planet platform has consistently triggered it's "rapair" interrupt on it's way to the shattered planet (I've not yet made it all the way). It doesn't seem to happen immediately when the conditions are meet. So when can platform interrupts trigger? Are there "hidden stations" along some routes where they can trigger?

[Edit - Found the answere on the wiki:
Additionally, platforms can make use of schedule interrupts, which behave exactly like trains.

The one exception to wait conditions is when traveling to the shattered planet. When this is selected, the wait condition becomes a "fly condition". Whatever condition is set will trigger while en-route to the shattered planet as if the platform was already stopped there. This is because the player is not intended to actually reach the shattered planet (though it is possible), and so the fly condition becomes a way to easily turn the platform around at a certain time.]

[leoch]

How do I schedule one ship (platform) to leave when another leaves from a different planet? With trains we can limit the number able to travel to a station but planets don't have this functionality.

I'm trying to make platform 1 load/unload at Nauvis while 2 is loading at Vulcanus etc. Without some form of cross-platform scheduling they always bunch up at whichever planet has the slowest loading.

[Tertius]

How do I schedule one ship (platform) to leave when another leaves from a different planet? With trains we can limit the number able to travel to a station but planets don't have this functionality.

I'm trying to make platform 1 load/unload at Nauvis while 2 is loading at Vulcanus etc. Without some form of cross-platform scheduling they always bunch up at whichever planet has the slowest loading.

Not possible. Planets don't have the equivalent of train limits, and it's not possible to communicate anything between platforms or from one planet to a platform or between platforms. There isn't even a workaround.

For your issue, I suggest you build more rocket silos on the planet with the slowest loading to get rid of that bottleneck. If requesting items down to the planet is the bottleneck, add cargo bays to the cargo landing pad to increase the amount of incoming cargo pods in parallel. The landing has 3 slots, and each cargo bay adds 1. For the opposite direction it's the same. If there are 6 rocket silos available to launch in parallel, you need 3 cargo bays in the platform to have 3 + 3 = 6 slots for 6 incoming rockets in parallel.

I suggest you build your whole cargo and transport concept on the above assumption and design a system that contains no dependencies between platforms. Proper operating must not depend on loading times.

On my last map, I designed a system like this:
Nauvis is the central hub where science packs are delivered from every planet.

There are 4 platforms, 1 for each planet that goes back and forth between that planet and Nauvis. Each picks up the planet specific science pack and delivers it to Nauvis. And it picks up any planet specific resource required for producing the science pack from other planets. They operate with interrupts. In case any resource is missing, an interrupt triggers and that resource is picked up. If none of these trigger, the science pack pickup interrupt triggers and the platform finally goes to pick up the science pack. These interrupts all use the "Any planet request zero <planet>" interrupt condition.

And there are 2 trading platforms, acting like travelling warehouses. One that travels Nauvis > Vulcanus > Gleba > Fulgora (static schedule) and one that travels Nauvis > Vulcanus > Gleba > Aquilo > Fulgora, also pure static schedule. On each planet they pick up some planet specific resource (calcite and green belts from Vulcanus, electromagnetic plants from Fulgora etc.) and drop whatever a planet requests.

Actually, I didn't tell the truth about the science pack platforms. The Aquilo science pack platform is the only one that actually works like this. The other planets all produce their own resources, so their science pack platform just operates on a static schedule with 2 entries: Nauvis and the planet.

And the Gleba science pack platform is the only one that also brings an item back to Gleba: it's biter eggs.

This way every platform is independent from each other, so no synchronization is required.

All planets have at least 6 rocket silos. Nauvis has a bunch more because of biter eggs launching.

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[mmmPI]

How do I schedule one ship (platform) to leave when another leaves from a different planet? With trains we can limit the number able to travel to a station but planets don't have this functionality.

I'm trying to make platform 1 load/unload at Nauvis while 2 is loading at Vulcanus etc. Without some form of cross-platform scheduling they always bunch up at whichever planet has the slowest loading.

Not possible. Planets don't have the equivalent of train limits, and it's not possible to communicate anything between platforms or from one planet to a platform or between platforms. There isn't even a workaround.

If you consider direct equivalent to train limits, or cross-platform sheduling, then i agree it's not possible, there are no easy way to do so in game, due to the lack of direct means of communication between the platforms or planets.

But if you want to nitpick, you can try to approximate this behavior. If you give both identical platform a "time passed" condition long enough, ( 1hour ? 10 minutes ? 5 ? depend on the platform and your game) you avoid perturbation or discrepancies between them. You need to avoid conditions like "request satisfied" because in case one planet has a problem, one platform will not move, and the other will join it, and that's what we try to avoid ! You need to wait for them to be on their respective planets, and you quickly launch one after the other to begin the ballet.

You can also use the "filter combinator" in random input mod, if you want to have tick precise synchronization or use more complicated circuit condition to achieve in practice the same thing, like "ferries" over a passage of water that depart every hour, they don't need to be aware when the other ferry is leaving its side they just swap "blindly".

[eugenekay]

How do I schedule one ship (platform) to leave when another leaves from a different planet? With trains we can limit the number able to travel to a station but planets don't have this functionality.

I'm trying to make platform 1 load/unload at Nauvis while 2 is loading at Vulcanus etc. Without some form of cross-platform scheduling they always bunch up at whichever planet has the slowest loading.

While it is true that you cannot send a Signal between Surfaces or Platforms to coordinate their departure, you can send Items to create a 1-bit Semaphore - On or Off. This is a similar concept to old-fashioned Railway Tokens which ensured only 1 Train was present on a Track greatly reducing the chances of a deadly collision by two trains meeting head-on.

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Once the Semaphore Item has been Received the Platform's "All requests satisfied" condition is met, and it departs. A Combinator-controlled Inserter is used to eject the Semaphore into space, so it will have to wait for a new one before the cycle can continue.

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By restricting the availability of a given Semaphore Item to a single Silo with a Timer you can ensure that only 1 Platform at a time is able to fulfill its Cargo Requests. It is important to choose a Unique Item - I use Display Panels, Lamps, or Combinators since they are unaffected by Quality; so there is no reason to produce anything above Normal quality anywhere else in the Factory.

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This technique provides a pretty even spacing between Platforms. If you are Un/loading at multiple planets there is still the opportunity for a bus bunching problem to develop. You also need to have a different Item type for each "set" of platforms in rotation.

Good Luck!

[leoch]

Thanks for the responses. I am using the planetary distance adjustments to increase the distances between planets, and as such it can be useful having multiple platforms even on a single route. Of course this may result in performance issues later in the game!

If you give both identical platform a "time passed" condition long enough, ( 1hour ? 10 minutes ? 5 ? depend on the platform and your game) you avoid perturbation or discrepancies between them.

The one issue with this is that if anything is currently being delivered then the platform will not leave on schedule, hence the timer would need to be long enough to account for that.

While it is true that you cannot send a Signal between Surfaces or Platforms to coordinate their departure, you can send Items to create a 1-bit Semaphore - On or Off. This is a similar concept to old-fashioned Railway Tokens which ensured only 1 Train was present on a Track greatly reducing the chances of a deadly collision by two trains meeting head-on.

Interesting. I understand you are not trying to synchronise the time-of-departure with a platform from another planet but merely to let platforms leave one planet at a set rate. This does indeed seem a viable solution!

[mmmPI]

Thanks for the responses. I am using the planetary distance adjustments to increase the distances between planets, and as such it can be useful having multiple platforms even on a single route. Of course this may result in performance issues later in the game!

Make sense why you'd search for those particular way of controlling platforms

The one issue with this is that if anything is currently being delivered then the platform will not leave on schedule, hence the timer would need to be long enough to account for that.

Exactly, that's a simple naive approach that would be fragile with more than "2" ferries, now if you start to think of an airport that stop the check-in maybe 1 hours before take-off, to make sure the last customers who checked-in had enough time to get on board, and their luggage, it would quickly look like the system eugenekay described, you prevent silos to be loaded if they can't send a full rocket and you don't feed any more silo like 1 minute before the platform is expected to leave the planet , to make sure it can leave on time, no pending rocket. Where this is limited is if you have multiple platform following multiple routes, you don't want to stop "all silo" because "one" platform will leave the planet soon, the others still need to load. So using an item as a token as the signal for when that specific platform is allowed to leave the planet can be used . It can still happen that a platform doesn't depart immediatly after receiving the token item though, for the same reason you describe, in the example for eugenekay, if uranium ammo are not at 10K when the legendary display is received by the platform, even if time was due for departure, the platform will wait for the uranium ammo. ( and other can pile up behind if uranium ammo production is broken). If your platform require uranium ammo to not crash in space, it's probably safer to wait for them to be loaded instead of fixed departure time of X minutes whatever the number of passenger / cargo.

There is no easy and foolproof way, those are mutually exclusive there i think. I can think of more complex system where each platform would have a little timer to measure how much time they stay on each planet and try to go "faster or slower" during their travel, because you can read all those on a platform hub, with the aim of making sure each trip is of the same duration travel + loading. The one that would work best should probably be tailored for how many planets you have and how far away they are in your galaxy

[eugenekay]

It can still happen that a platform doesn't depart immediatly after receiving the token item though, for the same reason you describe, in the example for eugenekay, if uranium ammo are not at 10K when the legendary display is received by the platform, even if time was due for departure, the platform will wait for the uranium ammo. ( and other can pile up behind if uranium ammo production is broken). If your platform require uranium ammo to not crash in space

You totally can (and should!) produce Ammo onboard the Platform; it just happens that the example Ship Design I shared is from a Save where I was trying to produce/use as many Bullets-per-minute as possible to consume extra Uranium; versus the more conventional Science-per-Minute benchmark. The core Semaphore mechanism can exist on any planet within the schedule; it works best if there are no other Conditions for that Stop. I also use the Planetary Distance Adjustment mod to make Platform travel slightly more of a challenge.