Bob mods for 0.12 General Topic.

[bobingabout]

If i use this on an existing save, will it break a lot of stuff?

I always try my best to make my mods compatable with existing saves.

I tried this mod out with existing Bob's Mods, and it works fine. However, due to a few changes in the recipe structure (basic electronic board, basic circuit board, and Electronic Circuit) you may need to change robot requesters or belt routes, and clear out clogs of the wrong items on anything that requires said items. You may also need to change the recipe on any factory producing these items.

I also tried this mod out with vanilla new game, and it also works as intended.


The only bugs I have seen so far is that if you are using MCI and the new Electronics mod, some items will be listed for unlock twice in the electronic research techs. This doesn't have any actual effects on gameplay, just a graphical issue.
There's also a migration issue, the old basic electronic circuits arn't migrated...

[jaxterity]

Hey Bob!

I just now put in all the mods except the override for the version .12.

The issue i am running into, is there is no way to craft Assembly Machines Mk2. This is because we need a Basic Electronic Board. To produce this, we need Basic electronic components which are produced IN the Assembly Machines Mk2. You also need, RESIN. Resin is produced currently in the Assembly Machine Mk2.

So the recipes go in a loop needing the Assembly Machine Mk2 which then goes to craft those things which is used to craft the machine itself.

[bobingabout]

I see the issue... I limited the construction of the offending items (resin and Basic Electronics) to Crafting with Fluid catagory, assuming it was a "This needs to be made in a machine, not by hand" catagory, forgetting that assembling machine MK1 does not have that catagory. You are supposed to be able to make them in assembly machine MK1.

I shall devise a fix for this and fix the issue.

[bobingabout]

Updates:

Enemies:
Added drops to behemoth enemies

Electronics:
Fixed migration script.
Added a new Crafting Machine catagory, dynamically added to existing machines with catagory Crafting to be able to set machine only crafting in all assembly machines.

[orzelek]

If I'm using electronics override now and switch to the new one a lot of stuff will go wrong I guess?

[Razunter]

I feel that Sniper Turrets and Sniper Rifle is too unbalanced right now. I can just put 3-6 sniper turrets and clear big nests with them and some enemies won't even try to attack me and others just getting obliterated.

Edit: upgraded to Electronics v0.12.1, now I can't automatically craft Wooden boards when they are needed. I can still craft them manually.

[bobingabout]

If I'm using electronics override now and switch to the new one a lot of stuff will go wrong I guess?

The damage is actually fairly minimal... though still best to check on anything that uses either the Basic Cicuit Board or Basic Electronic board to make sure they're getting the right item.

I feel that Sniper Turrets and Sniper Rifle is too unbalanced right now. I can just put 3-6 sniper turrets and clear big nests with them and some enemies won't even try to attack me and others just getting obliterated.

The Sniper Rifle should be ballanced to the Rifle and SMG. the damage is increased by the same proportion as fire rate is decreased, maintaining the same DPS, this however doesn't take into account the pure damage resistances on enemies, making the rifle and sniper rifle better than the SMG.
As for the sniper turret, they actually do only half as much damage per second as the gun turret in the latest version, the MK2 is on par with the sniper rifle. The Gun turret MK1 does twice the damage as the SMG.

[Razunter]

The Sniper Rifle should be ballanced to the Rifle and SMG. the damage is increased by the same proportion as fire rate is decreased, maintaining the same DPS, this however doesn't take into account the pure damage resistances on enemies, making the rifle and sniper rifle better than the SMG.
As for the sniper turret, they actually do only half as much damage per second as the gun turret in the latest version, the MK2 is on par with the sniper rifle. The Gun turret MK1 does twice the damage as the SMG.

Damage isn't really an issue, but range is. You can shoot Big Worms from great distance and they don't react.

[cpw]

Hey bobingabout:

Ran into a hard game crash to desktop when accessing an assembler programmed with the circuit board (old one without components) after applying upgrade.

error

91.509 Error Util.cpp:46: Cannot add child widget because it is nullptr

Also saw this in the logs:

error

18.156 Warning PrototypeMigrationList.cpp:154: "electronic-circuit-board" mentioned as FROM in prototype migration was not found in the map prototype dictionary, ignoring ...
18.156 Warning PrototypeMigrationList.cpp:154: "electronic-processing-board" mentioned as FROM in prototype migration was not found in the map prototype dictionary, ignoring ...

Not sure if related but seems plausible.

I also noticed that one assembler had recipe in it, other did NOT. (it was the classic 3 coil to two board layout).

Most assemblers are level 1 in this (still early in start) game.

Update: So I broke/replaced the assemblers, and it worked fine. But WOW. This change breaks pretty much any world save that's past basic green science packs. Not that I disagree with it per-se, but few factory designs are going to be usable afterwards - the split of the brown circuits into two, with the simpler version only really used for tier 0 items, really screws with factory setups for sure!

[bobingabout]

Not entirely sure about the error... the recipe itself should still exist in MCI even if it isn't used. The overide code changes it to disabled (so you can't set it) rather than deleting it, and changes the output to match the right item. the effect is that there will be 2 identical recipes in the game, one that you can't set, the effect you'll notice is that they remain producing something.

as for the changes, it was designed to make things a bit harder. Depending on layouts though, most of the change would be adding an extra step to add components to the board.
I do agree that it can be pretty hard to do with some layouts, but so was the change to add in the solder plate step, so you had to make solder plates before making solder, instead of making solder stright up from the raw matals. Very few people complained.

But this change was aimed mostly at the people complaining that the Basic Electronic board (with the components on it) was pretty much useless, because it was only used in about 2 things total.

And you can moan at me again when I re-write all of the bobmods machines that currently use the board without electronics on them, even with the new changes so that most of them need the electronics version
I want to go through all the recipes manually...

[F-W]

Hello, Bob.

I like your mods, because they add some very good features to the game, that original Factorio lacks (in my opinion). And also lots of new content. But after playing for a while, I realised, that they are completely ruined all game balance!

Firstly, I tried to fix this, by disabling some things in config files. Then I start to modifier prerequisites and cost of some your technologies. Cost of creation some objects. Ore parameters. But I played a bit longer and realised, that it's easier to create new mod, selecting and using some of your content...


So, I want to ask you, what are the ideas of your mods? Do you want to make the game more challenging? Bigger? Or only more complicated, but more relaxed in other aspects?


Because, yes, you add a lot of interesting content to the game. But it's become pointless, if you can solve any problem with just few early technologies. I would really like to see your features, without so huge balance changing. Or maybe even with changes which make the game little bit harder, not easier...


I have a large list of ideas, how to fix and improve the game balance of your mods, mostly keeping your technologies. And I can explain each point. But not sure, if you interested in something like this...

(P.S.: maybe will be useful fore you some icons)

tank-cannon-shooting-speed.png (10.42 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

laser-rifle-shooting-speed.png (3.54 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

gatling-gun.png (2.01 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

laser-rifle.png (1.46 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

siege-rocket-launcher.png (2.06 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

assault-rifle.png (1.83 KiB) Viewed 6742 times

[muaddib912]

By the way, just in case you didnt know you can build basic electronic boards by hand allowing you to craft an assembly machine mk 2

[bobingabout]

By the way, just in case you didnt know you can build basic electronic boards by hand allowing you to craft an assembly machine mk 2

Building the Resin and Component by machine was intended. once you have the components, being able to build them by hand was intended. I was thinking like an electronic engineer, you don't make resistors by hand, a machine makes them, but soldering them into a board is something you can do by hand very easilly. Soldering on a CPU by hand on the Tier 4 electronics might not be something you do by hand, but I didn't want to change the rule just for the final tier. Besides, it is unlikely you'll make them by hand at that point anyway.

Hello, Bob.
So, I want to ask you, what are the ideas of your mods? Do you want to make the game more challenging? Bigger? Or only more complicated, but more relaxed in other aspects?


Because, yes, you add a lot of interesting content to the game. But it's become pointless, if you can solve any problem with just few early technologies. I would really like to see your features, without so huge balance changing. Or maybe even with changes which make the game little bit harder, not easier...

Some things like higher tier machines are intended to make the game easier. The challenge is finding and processing the resources in order to build those more advanced machines. Other aspects like the Enemies mod is purely intended to make the game harder, or at least it was, I find that the new behemoth biters are usually the last thing standing in any fight, even over my harder enemies. Adding even harder enemies may be something I have to add later. Warfare is then intended to give you the tools to cope with the harder enemies, and does end up making the game easier again, most of the recipes in that mod though are placeholder recipes, not finished, most of the higher end stuff should require you to go out killing enemies to gather the materials you need to produce them.

[Razunter]

Just finished my playthrough with Bob's mods & RSO. Great addition to the game, but not without issues.

My thoughts on weapons balance:
1) If you can alter turrets AI, make Sniper Turrets into "Cannon" Turrets by reducing their range to normal levels, nerfing attack speed by 5-10 times and making them prioritize tougher targets first. Otherwise just remove them entirely, you don't need any other turret type or even walls when you have them. Same with Sniper Rifle.
2) Add new Tanks with better speed and weapons, default tank is too weak for endgame.
3) Top-tier player weapons are useless against top-tier enemies, they don't do enough damage. Tower creep is only viable tactics in late game. Laser rifle is pathetic.

Other notes:
1) Droids MK4 fly faster than Big Worms projectiles. This leads to situations where player can be one-shotted by "unknown" force from offscreen when requesting items.
2) I had to use "Void Chest" mod to get rid of Sodium hydroxide.
3) One more tier of solar panels and accumulators wouldn't hurt.
4) It would be nice to have full support of Autofill mod

[F-W]

I played some hard-mode games in Factorio with your mods and without them. So, I can compare, how gameplay is changed.

Firstly, I thought, that more types of necessary resources, more complicated production chains and more powerfull enemies will make the game harder and more interesting. But in fact, I abandoned the game with your mods, because it's become too easy, even with no hi-tier technologies. And now with friend we start multipleer hard-mode game without your mods too. Even if I really like lots of your ideas!

Your mods radically changed every single aspect of the game, mainly by making them easier (except two: production chains and enemies). And, since they act simultaneously, total difficulty reduces too much.

1) Steam energy: with Mk2/Mk3 boilers and Mk2 steam engines it's easy early in the game to reduse fuel consumption 3-4 times. So, fuel never will be an issue.
2) Solar energy: it is 2,5 - 3 times easier to switch solar for the reason of cheap steel, basic circuits and high-capacity accumulators. I can explain it more detailed in numbers.
3) Sniper turrets: - very cheap and easy to get siege artillery, deals immense amount of damage with high distance, and very ammo efficient. With them you can get even very large biter base early in the game, regardless more powerful spawners and large worms.
4) Gun turrets: - and with few tiers higher gun turrets, you can deal with every type of enemy, even with standard ammo, because their bonuses multiplied with upgrades.
5) Electronics: - much more cheap than in standard game. And it's cost spread to many types of resources. They are spawn on the map in addition to standard, so it's become even more easier to get a lot of electronic circuits and advanced circuits. Also, iron and copper never be an issue too, as well as blue science.
6) Processing units: - regular game processing units cost growing exponentially. In your mod it is growing linear. So, they are cost nothing, compared to original ones, and are is much easier to get lots of them. It means easier to get power armor and so on. I made some (well, not easy) calculation of there cost, if you interested...
7) Modules: - they are both - cost nothing and OP! So you can supply entire factory with them, using only few stacks of raw resources. And also, their cost with tier grows linear, while in original game - exponential... And they are more powerful too...

Seems to me, it's too much.

killing enemies to gather the materials you need to produce them

Well, in my previous game with turned-off small artifacts I had 2 and a half steel chests full of alien artifacts... So it is really not a problem.

If you can alter turrets AI, make Sniper Turrets into "Cannon" Turrets

It is a good idea. They must be nerfed.

[bobingabout]

I think the point with the sniper turrets is pretty valid there... I only really added them because people were requesting them, but the range is too long, they could do with more ballancing: Shorter range, and longer delay between shots.
Unfortunately the change in AI isn't something I can do.

As for the electronics, one of the things I hated in the base game was the way you just "Throw more of the same stuff at it", so MASSIVE iron and copper costs? Well, not really a challenge, or maybe just not my thing... you find a nice healthy vain, and you're set. The aim of my electronics is to change away from the "More of the same" scheme, and change to a more realistic "Complex production chain, made from lots of different resources", the challange expanding the complexity of your factory instead of throwing more of the same resources at it. If you set decend spawn ammounts, the hard part becomes finding a nice fat gold field worth setting up a base on, then clearing out all the enemies so you can start producing the processing units. Gold doesn't spawn in the starting area, and is supposed to be rare and hard to find, so if it's all over the place, try different spawn settings.

In fact that was a key point of not just electronics, but most of the mod, A move away from "More of the same", and a move towards "similar amounts of something else".

Steam power... You're pretty much the only person complaining about the steam power, other people may have mentioned things about it, but that mod has existed as is almost untouched since 0.10 of factorio, with little to no mention about ballance issues. I don't mind making ballancing changes, but I'm just pointing out that you're the first person to voice such a strong opinion about it being overpowered.

Tanks... They're on the todo list. Other core mechanics of my mod have been taking priority over such additions. Warfare mod is the one I was creating last, starting just before I got busy and had to stop modding, so was still in WIP after the 0.11.22 stable, and remained in WIP into 0.12 release. it is still technically in WIP phase.

Player weapons, well, most of them are new. I had them ballanced to the game as it existed in 0.11. The new Behemoth biters/spitters do highlight that my player weaponry may not be strong enough to combat it. For now, try making Power Armor MK5 and filling it with the top tier stuff... 4 reactors, about 16 shields, 20 batteries 2 exoskeleton and fill the rest with lasers, and you won't have a problem with enemies.

the droid MK4 thing is another new issue, this wasn't a problem in 0.11 because there was no player roboport, which means you never had the acid spit flying across the map chasing one of your construction robots, if the situation did exist before, it would hit a roboport, which could take the hit, but also, put those shield modules in there, that will protect you.


The final point I'll mention... Modules. Trying to cater to everone's wishs isn't easy, you'll have the players who just want to make things easier using max tier Raw, Green and God modules in everything. on the other hand, you have players like CPY who disable combined and god modules, then wrote their own overide mod to nerf the crap out of the ones that were left. and someone else even made another mod to disable productivity effects in all factories.
This is why the latest version has a config file that lets you adjust values to your own liking. It took quite a number of hours to add those config options, I sugest you take a look, and change all the values. If you don't like the linier progression very much, I sugest you set a starting bonus, and reduce all the level values. Productivity of 0.04 starting bonus and 0.01 per level would mean MK1 has 5%, and it increments only 1% per tier, so MK8 would have 12%.


I think I covered most of what both of you said there.

[lolman360]

Bob, i wish you could make a mod that is opposite of Electronics Override. it turns all MCI electrics into base-game items.

[bobingabout]

Bob, i wish you could make a mod that is opposite of Electronics Override. it turns all MCI electrics into base-game items.

Well, you'll get your wish, kinda.

Now that Electronics from MCI have been merged into the old Electronics Overide mod to make the new Electronics mod, they are defined twice (in MCI and Electronics) So I intend to remove them from MCI, Giving the players the choice of MCI with base game style electronics, or MCI + Electronics with Bob style electronics. I'm not sure when for though, it may be a few subversion numbers.

[oLaudix]

MCI with base game style electronics

I want this

[bobingabout]

Updates released.

Changes:
Warfare 0.12.3:
Fixed order of solar panels
Fixed sniper turret upgrade locale entries.
Fixed poison and fire effect drifting with wind.
Turret ballance tweaks
Added research for Rocket speed/damage 6
Using tech functions to make things easier.
Fixed recipes to be compatable with the new MCI mod electronics.

Assembly mod 0.12.2:
Adjusted recipes for use with new electronics mod.
Reballanced power consumption of all assembly machines.

Modules 0.12.3
Added Bob's Electronics mod as an optional prerequisite.
Updated the no Electronics mod Recipes

plates v0.12.3
Electronics seperation -> Basic electronics in here with new Electronics only in the Electronics mod.
added advanced-processing-unit made with 2x processing-unit, 20x advanced-circuit 2x sulfuric-acid
removed pipe to ground fast replace overide
Renamed void pump to gas venting pump, with vent gas research. Remove fluids from list.


Tech 0.12.2:
Added some functions to make things easier.

Enemy Mod 0.12.3:
Fixed poison and fire effect drifting with wind.

logistics mod 0.12.3:
Adjusted recipes for use with new electronics mod.
Added pipe to ground fast replace overide

Electronics mod 0.12.2:
use tech functions

power 0.12.2
fixed a recipe