[0.12.1] Personal roboport doesn't work as expected

[SHiRKiT]

I'm quite curious, what is the root difference between your and my playstyle, that make the view on the personal roboport so different.

I personally have automated requests of the basic intermediate products and all the basic structures (belts, inserters, rails, assemblers, power poles, roboports, etc). Stack or more of each, so whenever I build the blueprint I have enough of it on me and I see the result in seconds, so I can work with that. I usually don't have problems with inventory space, unless I have a lot of crap that I can just get rid of. When I'm building specific things like solar arrays, I'm ok with the robots to take all of the solars/accumulators from my inventory (if I have some, I usually don't have), and the rest, they take it from the logistic network. I don't have to see the result now, so I can just put blueprint or two of solar array and I can leave it there as it is.

I normally have 5-10 of some item with me, unless I plan building something. I do not carry anything in my inventory that's no essentially needed. I normally have around 5k logistic and construction robots in all networks (since I don't think we'll ever get to the idea of "colored" networks, I forgot the proper term), I separate them into outposts networks, which basically just rebuilds and takes care of the network, and my main network, which consists of a really large logistic network, all done by bots (trying to build the 0.12 base like this as I speak, since I lost my 0.11 save). Most of the time I do not want anything to mess around with my inventory at all, since I spend most of my time destroying and building new stuff with ghost placement and blueprint it at the end. Messing with my inventory means that I cannot work with ghost placement near me, and I'd need to spend logistic slots to request the stuff I'm building, which makes no sense to me. If the bots will end up bringing the stuff to me so that my personal robots build the stuff in the end, I'd prefer for them just to build the stuff with the items in the logistic network, which would've happened if "I wasn't in the way".

My playstyle is pretty different from yours. I'm never ok with anything that's implicitly working with my inventory and messing around in a way I do not want. I use bots for everything. But in a totally different way.

At the next weekend, if nobody goes hunting for it, I'll try to create a mod that disables the personal roboport when inside a construction network, and add's a GUI button somewhere I manually control it.

[MeduSalem]

I'm quite curious, what is the root difference between your and my playstyle, that make the view on the personal roboport so different.

I personally have automated requests of the basic intermediate products and all the basic structures (belts, inserters, rails, assemblers, power poles, roboports, etc). Stack or more of each, so whenever I build the blueprint I have enough of it on me and I see the result in seconds, so I can work with that. I usually don't have problems with inventory space, unless I have a lot of crap that I can just get rid of. When I'm building specific things like solar arrays, I'm ok with the robots to take all of the solars/accumulators from my inventory (if I have some, I usually don't have), and the rest, they take it from the logistic network. I don't have to see the result now, so I can just put blueprint or two of solar array and I can leave it there as it is.

That's actually a really interesting question...

I guess that I'm using pretty much every item of the game way too often in day-to-day scenarios when I'm playing. I've at least 30-40 items I use during almost every session of the game because if I see something I could do better I'll do it right away. Which is why 20 request slots don't really do the job for me, even though I've never complained about that yet since I've found my way around that. Most of the stuff I've no free request slots for I'm carrying with me as single-item blueprints and I only request the stuff that actually doesn't work quite well that way because they are buggy or not quite as functional or don't work at all this way. For example:

- Splitters... Single-item blueprint placement is buggy with them because it can't be placed anywhere near existing stuff (I wanted to make a report about that a long time ago but didn't get to it yet)... also there's this strange off-set to many single-item blueprints that makes them hard to place.
- Underground belts... Can't change the direction of the item flow and it's not worth to have 2 explicit blueprints for that which look exactly the same.

So that stuff makes sense to have it as "real item" in your inventory, so I'm always requesting a stack of them. Then there is also the stuff that I want to have ready at all times for the case I'm going outside the logistic network because running back/forth isn't that fun at all, like for example:

- Shotgun Shells... I don't want to be caught off-guard.
- Power Poles... I need them to get power somewhere...
- Roboports... I can't extend the roboport network without...

For everything else I'm using single-item-blueprints, which to be honest fill at least 50% of my inventory, if not more sometimes. For example:

- Assemblers... I don't carry them with me as real items... I don't need to because the single-item-blueprint does the job quite well and I don't need them in outposts either.
- Walls... I don't carry them either because they need to be within a construction robot area anyways to get repaired, so I might as well let them get placed by them.

I guess that I can't play the game saying "today you are going to redo the assembly line" and then only have the items needed exactly for that. On the way I'm stumbling accross other stuff as well like "damn power is short"... and then I'd have to get all the stuff for that into my inventory and on the way back to the assembly lines I get attacked by biters who took their chance during the power fluctuations and I've to expand on the defense and so forth and need those items.

So that's why I'm relying very heavily on blueprints and I mostly don't have the required items in my inventory.

The above mentioned items are just examples, like I wrote. There are several dozen other items for which similar reasons exist as for why I'm requesting them or why I'm using them as blueprints.

But I guess this is also why I'm having major trouble in dealing with getting all the items dumped into my inventory when deconstructing something. I just don't have the space for all that crap because I don't request most of those items to my inventory in the first place and I don't want it because I'm a lazy bastard relying on construction robots to do almost everything for me. xD

Another thing is that I'm building/deconstructing stuff on mass. If I build something it's almost guranteed that the blueprint will be stamped all over the place like crazy with hundreds over hundreds of items of the same type being needed, which is another reason why the items in my inventory would never suffice in the first place, and the same is true for deconstructing... It wouldn't fit into my inventory.

I normally have 5-10 of some item with me, unless I plan building something. I do not carry anything in my inventory that's no essentially needed. I normally have around 5k logistic and construction robots in all networks (since I don't think we'll ever get to the idea of "colored" networks, I forgot the proper term), I separate them into outposts networks, which basically just rebuilds and takes care of the network, and my main network, which consists of a really large logistic network, all done by bots (trying to build the 0.12 base like this as I speak, since I lost my 0.11 save). Most of the time I do not want anything to mess around with my inventory at all, since I spend most of my time destroying and building new stuff with ghost placement and blueprint it at the end. Messing with my inventory means that I cannot work with ghost placement near me, and I'd need to spend logistic slots to request the stuff I'm building, which makes no sense to me. If the bots will end up bringing the stuff to me so that my personal robots build the stuff in the end, I'd prefer for them just to build the stuff with the items in the logistic network, which would've happened if "I wasn't in the way".

My playstyle is pretty different from yours. I'm never ok with anything that's implicitly working with my inventory and messing around in a way I do not want. I use bots for everything. But in a totally different way.

Also that, because I'm also ghosting most of the stuff I'm not using as a blueprint already.

The only reason why I'm using single-item blueprints over ghosting for the most part is because half of the time I'm actually placing the item instead of ghosting it and forget that I need that thing to be able to ghost further instances later on, and then I'd have to backtrack and deconstruct it again if I can remember where I lost that thing in the first place or backtrack to the factory and get a new one, especially if I don't request it. Can't happen with single-item blueprints.

At the next weekend, if nobody goes hunting for it, I'll try to create a mod that disables the personal roboport when inside a construction network, and add's a GUI button somewhere I manually control it.

Go for it! I'll probably be using it, which would make it literally the first mod ever that I used. xD

Don't forget about something like an icon that gets displayed once you enter the construction area of a roboport that shows that your personal roboport got disabled temporarily, maybe together with the GUI button you are planning anyways that enables you to override the default behavior.

[ssilk]

- I don't like to run around to get the needed items. I use mainly the personal request slots. Maybe one reason for that is, that I don't know, where one item is. My storage chests include some, but where? And I produce belts at different sites, but which one has enough?
- I don't like to run twice: First look, about how much I need, then run back, take the items I need, run to the target, place the stuff. Instead I see a situation and build it. No need to think that much and doing running around, which distracts you all the time.
- I think I need too many different items too often.
- I don't like to request the raw materials to craft them, cause this is Factorio: You should try to automate it.
- I don't like to put so much items of one type into my inventory, cause I know it will not be enough.
- I don't like to produce enough items of one type in masses, so that when I really need them I have enough. Instead I prefer to make a lean production and make that fast enough to keep up with my building-speed.
- I like to use the ghost-building-feature. That makes building stuff so much faster!
- I use some of the items, but afterwards I don't like to put it away, because I know I will need it. I'm a messy.
- Plus the needed blueprints overwhelms my inventory all the time.
- I find the new trash-slots so useful. I have many situations, where I need to make them completely full.
- Still I come into situations, where I cannot take any more.

Solutions (in my eyes):
- Don't take the last item. (short-term solution)
- Enable to place ghosts, even if you don't have the item.
- "Book of blueprints". Get rid of the blueprints in the inventory. Introduce mirroring of blueprints.
- enable to have "subgroups of items". I mean for example the belts: we have 9 types of belts and for "normal" gameplay I need nearly all. Same with many more items. Enable for example, that we can put all belt-items into one stack (splitted into substacks). Maybe that is too strong, but you see the point.
- Change priority of Personal roboport.
- Make finding items easier (find production, find stored items).
- ... many more ...


Edit (after reading the rest, I didn't want to let the two others influence me):

I normally have around 5k logistic and construction robots in all networks (since I don't think we'll ever get to the idea of "colored" networks, I forgot the proper term)

We called it currently "Overlapping Logistic Network II" : https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =67&t=8905
(that thread are contains basically 2 suggestions, the basic one by me with some changes and Medusalem's at the end).
What's not ready thought to the end is, how these networks work with the construction bots. That is completely left away.

The basic idea behind that is, that you need - just like the electrical network - just one big robot-network, but have "islands" which belongs to other networks, too. That enables much faster delivery in most cases.

The way a personal roboport would work with that is, that you can connect your personal roboport into the same network as the normal roboports/chests. But how is - as said - a completely different question.

[ssilk]

Actually that are suggestions, which also might be helpful:

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14263 Better Personal Roboport (3 suggestions)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14521 Inventory and toolbelt filters act as request slots
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14295 Priority Selection for Logistics (Robotics Sugestion)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=13435 Logistics System Requests

[RoddyVR]

Maybe i'm weird, but i fully like the way the personal roboport works right now. even though i dont think my play style is much like kovarex's. But like for him, the addition of personal bots helped me, by making some of my manual labor automatic. I tend to carry most of what i'm gonna build with me and i have no problem running back to base to resuply (i barely use logistics network). The personal bots have made it that i no longer have to have a logistics network at all, but can use blueprints to copy parts of my factory or to build long mutli lane belts without having to run up and down the line once for each belt.

In any case, so far everyone who complains about how it works now keeps saying what you DON'T want the personal roboport to do (take your last item, build in your overall network, put stuff in personal inventory), but it seems to me like if we take everything someone in this thread has said they don't want to personal robots doing and implement it all, then the personal robots will never do anything at all (except clear trees outside existing robonet).

I think when you list what you want the personal robots to not do, you should think of a situation when someone actually want them to do exactly that. And more so, describe what you think the function of the personal roboport is. I think some people here, built the personal roboport, filled it with bots, but don't actually have an understanding of what these little guys should be doing. If your plans don't include any work for these robots, then of course anything they do is just getting in your way.

Kovarex has a plan for his personal bots, they build everything near him quickly, by taking items from inventory, then that inventory gets replenished by the request slots. they deconstruct anything he points to, and then if he doesn't reuse the items to rebuilt what he just destroyed (better), he dumps it into the trash bins and his robonet takes it all away.
Its a working system, and in this case, the personal roboport is basically acting like an automated version of the mouse pointer. Without the personal roboport all the work it does now would be done by hand.

In some of your described annoyance scenarios, it seems like you had a working system without the roboport (be it single item blueprints or ghost placing) and you like it, but now that the personal roboport is added, it doesn't fit well into your system and you're trying to change the roboport to fit into your play style (that developed without the personal bots).

[kovarex]

Maybe i'm weird, but i fully like the way the personal roboport works right now. even though i dont think my play style is much like kovarex's. But like for him, the addition of personal bots helped me, by making some of my manual labor automatic. I tend to carry most of what i'm gonna build with me and i have no problem running back to base to resuply (i barely use logistics network). The personal bots have made it that i no longer have to have a logistics network at all, but can use blueprints to copy parts of my factory or to build long mutli lane belts without having to run up and down the line once for each belt.

In any case, so far everyone who complains about how it works now keeps saying what you DON'T want the personal roboport to do (take your last item, build in your overall network, put stuff in personal inventory), but it seems to me like if we take everything someone in this thread has said they don't want to personal robots doing and implement it all, then the personal robots will never do anything at all (except clear trees outside existing robonet).

I think when you list what you want the personal robots to not do, you should think of a situation when someone actually want them to do exactly that. And more so, describe what you think the function of the personal roboport is. I think some people here, built the personal roboport, filled it with bots, but don't actually have an understanding of what these little guys should be doing. If your plans don't include any work for these robots, then of course anything they do is just getting in your way.

Kovarex has a plan for his personal bots, they build everything near him quickly, by taking items from inventory, then that inventory gets replenished by the request slots. they deconstruct anything he points to, and then if he doesn't reuse the items to rebuilt what he just destroyed (better), he dumps it into the trash bins and his robonet takes it all away.
Its a working system, and in this case, the personal roboport is basically acting like an automated version of the mouse pointer. Without the personal roboport all the work it does now would be done by hand.

In some of your described annoyance scenarios, it seems like you had a working system without the roboport (be it single item blueprints or ghost placing) and you like it, but now that the personal roboport is added, it doesn't fit well into your system and you're trying to change the roboport to fit into your play style (that developed without the personal bots).

yes

[RoddyVR]

I dont mean to pick ssilk, just you've summarised what others want so well, that its easier to quote just you then half the thread.

.....
Solutions (in my eyes):
- Don't take the last item. (short-term solution)

so i have 20 furnaces, place a blueprint that includes 20 and it doesnt get filled by my personal bots? I'd get more annoyed... not to mention the single pieces of rail, turret, wall, and other things that are useless as oneoffs littering my inventory after a while.

- Enable to place ghosts, even if you don't have the item.

process to select what you'd want to place might be a bit unwieldy... you'd be picking from EVERY item in the game... i'd probably not use the feature.

- "Book of blueprints". Get rid of the blueprints in the inventory. Introduce mirroring of blueprints.

while i would like this feature, its a cheat in space management... right now you have to balance the number of blueprints with inventory space management, The inventory is gigantic as it is, and you're basicaly asking to increase it more by shrinking a large part of it (in the late game) down to 1 book.

- enable to have "subgroups of items". I mean for example the belts: we have 9 types of belts and for "normal" gameplay I need nearly all. Same with many more items. Enable for example, that we can put all belt-items into one stack (splitted into substacks). Maybe that is too strong, but you see the point.

please no, i'd find it hard NOT to use this, but at the same time would hate that to pick an inserter i now have to click on the stack, and then select the type inside it that i want.

- Change priority of Personal roboport.

to what? so that it doesnt build if there is regular network around? i'd HATE that change (why even have personal then), so that it doesnt put deconstructed items into my inventory but instead into chests... also would have to have to run to teh chest every time i want to reconstruct something 1 tile to the left of where it is (very easy to do now with perosnal bots, no waiting for long trips for half the bots, cause there's an inserter in a chest 9 screens away)

- Make finding items easier (find production, find stored items).

would be usefull, but i find myself at a loss even trying to imagine how to implement this, how would hte UI look? click on a craft like screen and have it flash an icon on the map for every inventory that has this item?

[kovarex]

- "Book of blueprints". Get rid of the blueprints in the inventory. Introduce mirroring of blueprints.

while i would like this feature, its a cheat in space management... right now you have to balance the number of blueprints with inventory space management, The inventory is gigantic as it is, and you're basicaly asking to increase it more by shrinking a large part of it (in the late game) down to 1 book.

Actually, this feature is already implemented by Rseding91 and we like it, it will go to 0.13

[oLaudix]

- "Book of blueprints". Get rid of the blueprints in the inventory. Introduce mirroring of blueprints.

while i would like this feature, its a cheat in space management... right now you have to balance the number of blueprints with inventory space management, The inventory is gigantic as it is, and you're basicaly asking to increase it more by shrinking a large part of it (in the late game) down to 1 book.

I think the blueprint book is a good idea. Especially with introduction of personal bots. Nowadays i even blueprint single smart inserters so I don't have to copy pasta settings to each of them. Building large factories makes me have about 20 blueprints easly.

- Change priority of Personal roboport.

to what? so that it doesnt build if there is regular network around? i'd HATE that change (why even have personal then), so that it doesnt put deconstructed items into my inventory but instead into chests... also would have to have to run to teh chest every time i want to reconstruct something 1 tile to the left of where it is (very easy to do now with perosnal bots, no waiting for long trips for half the bots, cause there's an inserter in a chest 9 screens away)l

Personal Bots Mod was working like that. It was annoying as hell. Robots running away from you and storing themselves in that network even more. The only thing I would change in personal roboport is bots putting stuff in storage chest when my inventory is full.

I tend to carry most of what i'm gonna build with me and i have no problem running back to base to resuply (i barely use logistics network). The personal bots have made it that i no longer have to have a logistics network at all

After 0.12 I only carry 50 construction robots on myself and have 0 in my roboport network. All items I need to build are put as a request and all I need to do is go back to main factory and stand for 10s for logistic robots to bring stuff to me. To be perfectly hones personal roboport made construction robots kinda obsolete to me.

[ssilk]

<lots of critics>
It was not my intend to suggest useful things. It was my intent to give ideas.

[codewarrior]

The thing where my personal 'bots will take my last item and prevent me from ghost-placing any more of that item is really, really, really annoying. My #1 peeve with the personal roboport. I don't build absolutely everything with blueprints, and they don't really help when snaking a long belt through some obstacles.

Having my inventory be filled with deconstructed items is somewhat less annoying. I'd love it if the deconstructed items went into my logistics trash slots.

I'm glad to hear that a blueprint library is coming. Now I won't need to have a chest full of blueprints sitting near my storage area.

[ssilk]

I think this suggestion is really simple to implement and will increase usability a lot:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14598

And I did also a suggestion: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14632

[Gandalf]

I think this suggestion is really simple to implement and will increase usability a lot:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14598

And I did also a suggestion: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14632

Those sound both way to complicated. Roboports so far are pretty straightforward. There may be some disagreement on who takes priority over what but all in all it's a very concise setup. If you start complicating that with half baked attempts at guessing the player's intentions or yet more variations of roboports, it'll just add more and more edge cases and contribute to the confusion.

I have played for a while now and I'm no longer so convinced about this personal roboport vs. local roboport priority issue. I think the way it works right now (0.12.3) is probably actually the behaviour that covers the most use cases.

[ssilk]

Well. In my opinion the personal roboport needs a small tweak. And I think it is the combination of 2 or more of the mentioned ideas. Not only one alone.
The problem is, that some needs to be tested in that combination, cause you cannot imagine, how they work together.

And well: I know it sound now a bit childisch, but I think the issue is small, but still there. It prevents the player of using the PRP all the time.

[ssilk]

I like such kind of distinction: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=14698

[Tallinu]

Not sure if this has been mentioned and I missed it, but I do think that personal robots should never take the last item out of your mouse cursor. If you have more than one and you're ghost-printing, fine, they can take some of them, but that last one should be off-limits.

This rule clearly would NOT apply if it was simply an item sitting in your inventory and you were placing things via blueprint - because the blueprint is in your mouse cursor, not the item the bots want to place. (They can't take the blueprint, but they're not trying to take the blueprint, so it doesn't matter.)

So, this rule wouldn't prevent you from carrying exactly the right number of items needed for your blueprint and having it place all of them, the way a strict "never take the last one of anything" rule would.

Alternatively, only prevent the last item from being taken out of your mouse cursor if the gost placement location is within a base logistics network.

If someone wanted to use a robot to place the last one of something via ghost image, say, because they simply don't want to walk all the way over there, they could still do this! All they'd have to do is return the item to their toolbar or inventory with Q after shift-clicking. Once returned, the item is no longer in the mouse cursor and the rule no longer applies, and the bots are allowed to take it and place it.

So this doesn't even have the potential to remove any functionality at all. It should only prevent the nuisance of having your last item stolen while you're using it.

[codewarrior]

I'm quite curious, what is the root difference between your and my playstyle, that make the view on the personal roboport so different.

I think it is this:

I use the personal roboport as a "range extender" when manually placing items without blueprints. Once you're used to using the roboport like this, the default build range for placing items seems unbearably small, so I use shift-click to build everything with personal bots. I think the same can be said of everyone who gets annoyed when the bots take the last item.

This style also means you can shift-click an item right under your feet, and a bot will wait for you to move out of the way before placing it. With normal building you simply can't build an item under your feet.

[SHiRKiT]

Just for linking purposes, I have created a mod that covers this area that's not covered by the vanilla game. Check it out here: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 92&t=14830

[nobodx]

My 2 cents:
Pre-Personal Roboport, I used to have a single item of the commonly needed items on me (eg a assembler) to place ghost images of stuff to build. Or stuff I needed as supply (eg 10 blue splitters in a row), without having to request them.
But since the robots in your inventory take from *all* your inventory, they often steal the stuff that I want to place somewhere, halfway through placing stuff.

Keep the priority and behavior as it is, but disable the robots ability to take the item "from your hand".

[ssilk]

So I have played now a lot the lasts weeks with the personal roboport.

TL;DR:
- really avoid, that robots deconstruct, if you don't have enough inventory space left
- (more) mechanisms to keep the inventory nice&clean: blueprint book (stores also the empty blueprints) and other mechanisms (e.g. auto-trash-mod)
- auto-blueprint an currently placed item, if last item is taken from a bot: would be really helpful (blueprint-book needed for that)
- easy switch between power armors would be useful (own slots near weapons)
- eventually some inventory upgrade needed
- pre-load inventory with number of blueprints, for faster construction.

....
Long version:

I think I have one suggestion, that really should be included in 0.12:
If you mark something for deconstruction AND your inventory is too small to contain all that stuff the personal roboport should not be used. Or should only be used so much, that the inventory has left one free stack.

Background: I had that situation now several times (think for example if you mark some full chests for deconstruction) and it is really annoying and it takes a while to manage that situation. It makes also much sense in that case, I think this is an expected behavior, that the bots bring on than you can hold.

EDIT: If your deconstruction includes a roboport, then that roboport should be deconstructed only, if the robots match inside your inventory. I lost hundrets of bots because of that: Last roboport of an outpost was deconstructed by my personal robots, but some bots from that outpost hadn't returned to that roboport yet. In that case the the remaining robots go back to the next roboport. Directly through a biter village! They should return to the player in that case. But that means, the roboports should only be deconstructed, if the remaining bots match inside the inventory. Quite complex.

For the other cases: After upgrading the inventory (inventory upgrade mod) and and request slots (dito), I'm really happy with the behavior of the personal roboport.
The auto-trash-mod is also a very big help, to keep the inventory small.

As summary I can say, it is really the case that the inventory is too small for the blueprints AND all the single items, that are needed to place ghosts. If there is
- a "blueprint-book", which can contain many blueprints,
- mechanisms to keep the inventory automatically small (auto-trash and the above mentioned suggestion),
- there is an easier way to switch between between the (equipped) power armor suites (I would wish own slots for that)
- there is eventually an research to extend the inventory,

then I think all the mentioned issues with the roboports can be ignored, besides that, when an item is used to place ghosts.
I suggest here the following: When you place items as ghosts and the last item is taken out of your hand you get automatically a blueprint with that item (if you have some empty in the blueprint-book) and can continue placing it, as nothing happens.

Oh, yes, one thing: You want to construct something from a blueprint. Then it would be useful that you can "load" your inventory with that many blueprints: Put pseudo-blueprint into personal request slots.

... hoping for 0.13.