[MOD 0.12.x] Treefarm REDUX (DISCONTINUED)

[ficolas]

The cokery really feels like a cheat... Virtually free way to increase fuel value. It should make the fuel more compact and thus reduce the count in the process thus helping logistics. The fuel value actually lowers a bit in reality.

The cookery also uses a bit of power, so if you lower it, it would be quite useless in my opinion.

[n9103]

He's not talking fuel value per item, but total value of the reactions.
Taking 10 0.5 logs and getting 10 1.5 cokecoal does seem a bit out of whack, considering each cookery only takes 60W. (turning 50 FV into 150FV for a handful of watts per step.)
He's saying that we should instead get fewer end products if we're getting higher fuel values for them. (turning 10x0.5 into 3x1.5 would be a conservation of energy, though perhaps a bit too strict. I can certainly understand if we were to end up with only 5 1.5 items at the end of the process however.

[drs9999]

Just wondering why you complain about the cokery. I mean the treefarm itself produces wood/ fuel out of nothing
Anyway, IMO the cokery/cokecoal becomes useless if I lower the output, because it is not worth to produce it anymore.

[Phantasm]

Just wondering why you complain about the cokery. I mean the treefarm itself produces wood/ fuel out of nothing
Anyway, IMO the cokery/cokecoal becomes useless if I lower the output, because it is not worth to produce it anymore.

Tree farming works in real life. Obviously it'll take little work to cut the trees and is slow. Nature will take care of water and nutrients.

[ssilk]

In real life coke coaling has a ratio of about 1/3. Insert 3 wood and get 1 coal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal
You'll never get more coal than wood.
And when we are at technical correctness: Wood in a burner is eventually ok, but burning wood in a furnace will normally end in very low-grade or unuseable material.
Hint: this is the golden bridge, disallow burning wood in a furnace or make it a very low ratio there (20:1?).

[drs9999]

Sure of course the 1:1:1:1 ratio is not realistic, but I see no other way here, because of the following:

Code: Select all

Fuel        Fuelvalue      converted into kJ
Wood        0.5(*)                  1
Charcoal    0.75                    1.5
Coal        1.0(*)                   2
Cokecoal    1.5                     3

where the fuelvalues of (*) were introduced in vanilla-factorio. And because I am not a friend of changing vanilla-mechanics I do not want to modify these values. That means I have to set the fuel values for the other fuels in relation to the given values.

I made some additional tests and calculations. For the tests I modified the recipes-ratio to 8:8:8:8 instead of 10:10:10:10. So I came to the following results:

With the energy of 1 cokecoal you can "produce" 15 coal in a basic mining drill, 8 coal in a burner mining drill and 64 coal in the cokery (wood->charcoal->coal).
This may looks OP, but it needs much more time to produce the 64 coal in the cokery.
Another Tests:
In 30sec a basic mining drill produces 15 coal, a burner mining drill 8 coal and the cokery 4 coal.

Because of these results I see no need to adjust any values here (except changing the recipes from 10:10 into 8:8 maybe).

[Phantasm]

I made some additional tests and calculations. For the tests I modified the recipes-ratio to 8:8:8:8 instead of 10:10:10:10. So I came to the following results:

With the energy of 1 cokecoal you can "produce" 15 coal in a basic mining drill, 8 coal in a burner mining drill and 64 coal in the cokery (wood->charcoal->coal).
This may looks OP, but it needs much more time to produce the 64 coal in the cokery.
Another Tests:
In 30sec a basic mining drill produces 15 coal, a burner mining drill 8 coal and the cokery 4 coal.

Because of these results I see no need to adjust any values here (except changing the recipes from 10:10 into 8:8 maybe).

You know mining drill uses limited resources from the ground? It *should* be way better than infinite trees from farming.

There is no problem with fuel values. There is problem with amounts you get. You will not get more energy from refined product than you get from original. Refined product just takes less space for same fuel value. As of now the mod is extremely unrealistic and very much a cheat.

And since there isn't really much use in logistical benefits (and less smoke etc) in Factorio, so you just remove cokery all together as useless.

[drs9999]

Hmm and I allways thought that an infinite map means infinite ressources as well...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback

[Phantasm]

Hmm and I allways thought that an infinite map means infinite ressources as well...

Well, yes... But considering the distance you have to get them increases... In the end it just isn't feasible anymore. While treefarming with cokery is infinite with no additional resource usage once you have started it. For new coal you have to invest both time and resources every now and then depending on size of the coal site.

And well.. If you want to keep the cokery for the logistics benefit.. 12 wood -> 8 charcoal, 8 charcoal -> 6 coal, 6 coal ->4 cokecoal. This is essentially keeping the energy equal which is still a bit unrealistic, but perhaps optimal compromise here.

[n9103]

12 wood -> 8 charcoal, 8 charcoal -> 6 coal, 6 coal ->4 cokecoal. This is essentially keeping the energy equal which is still a bit unrealistic, but perhaps optimal compromise here.

This has my vote, for what it's worth.

[kovarex]

I don't see a problem when you get more energy there.
From gameplay point of view, the player would be rewarded for adding another piece in the production chain.
From realistic point of view, I can easily imagine, that fuel processing can make it much more effective.

[Phantasm]

From realistic point of view, I can easily imagine, that fuel processing can make it much more effective.

It depends a lot on various things. But in this case the overall fuel value is lost in every further processing. However, the waste amount (both solid and smoke) is lowered and thus in some usages it might be much better in reality. Higher burning temperature and such.

For more advanced power production it would matter, but for steam power I don't think it matters anything.

As for gameplay, the gain is too much. Sure there could be some gain for gameplay, but now you get 3x energy from simple process.

[Geartwo]

Fast Up Date for 6.0.
You have to do it yourself.

1.
Go to "%appdata%\Factorio\mods\Treefarm-Mod\prototypes\item"
2.
Edit the "treefarm-mod.lua" with NotePad++ or something similar
3.
Edit the following lines:

"fuel_value = 0.75," --> "fuel_value = "6KJ","

"fuel_value = 1.50," --> "fuel_value = "14KJ","
4.
Save and Start the Game


Finish

[drs9999]

Thanks for the fix instruction. Can you confirm that the mod works correctly after theses changes?

[Geartwo]

Thanks for the fix instruction. Can you confirm that the mod works correctly after theses changes?

Yes, all things shold work.
At the moment we havn't seen any problem.
But you shold make a backap only to be on the save side. ^^

German:
Wir haben das ganze auf einer Großen bestehenden Map getestet und fanden keine Probleme.
Du solltest trotzdem Sicherheitshalber ein Backup machen.

[drs9999]

Ok, mod is updated to 0.6.0. Like always you can find it in the initial post.

Have fun!

[drs9999]

I just updated the mod to ModVersion 0.8.0

Most important changes:

The field now has an efficiency property that depends on the ground it is placed on.
Fields on grassland are more efficient than fields on dirt.
Fields on dirt are more efficient than fields on hills.
Fields on hills are more efficient than fields on sand.
Fields on sand are more efficient than fields which are placed over water.

If a field is placed on more than one ground type the avarage is calculated.

I removed the charcoal to coal recipe and added high pollution to the cokery
I also changed the field and cokery footprint, so they will fit better to the game grid

The mod is compatible with previous versions, but you might have to adjust you coal-processing-lines.


Anyway if you do not like the changes you can still use the old Modversion 0.7.1

And like allways you can find the download in the first post

Enjoy!

[n9103]

You do realize that you made the cokery the hands down single highest source of pollution now?
It's well above and beyond the next highest *actual* pollution source.
Even the biggest single source in stock (electric drill) is only 9, as opposed to the cokery's 12.
(As opposed to the aesthetic pollution from the electric miner's strip mining, and (I suppose?) the noise pollution from greatly boosted assemblers.)

Seems the only way to use these is in a section (almost) entirely enclosed by tree farms.

[drs9999]

Jepp, that was intended. I just thought that the whole production needs a downside. Before it was just free energy without any real disadvantage.

Anyway I might lower it if more people complain about it.

[ficolas]

I think its ok becauseyou can have TOOONS of mining drills but you wont have that much tree farms