Trying to make a train stop/bypass. confused about signals

[RickyRio]

Clean Image

Marked Image

Legend:
Red circles: signals that seem to work
Orange circles: signals that do not do what I want them to.
Black Arrows: flow of traffic
Green Circle: Block for train to cross over to the return track
Blue Circle: What I want to be a separate block from the Green Circle Block

Problem: I want this train stop to be two separate blocks so that while a train is at the stop. the rail is not blocked, but I cannot figure out how to signal it the way I have laid out my rails. How can I fix this? Do i need to redesign the way the rails here work?

[sillyfly]

The double-signal at the station entrance is redundant - if your system is one-way the signals should only be on one side.
Anyway - I don't understand what the problem is. Could you explain what is not working as you mean it to?

[ratchetfreak]

it should be fine the way you have it. Though the signals entering the interchange at the top should be chains.

What are the problems you are having?

[RickyRio]

my apologies, I realize (now that I have slept) my post could have been more clear. I may have been posting under the influence of "5 am" and "just about to pass out after working the night shift"

the issue: the signals in orange. Without a signal there, the train bypass (blue) is part of the same block as the return crossover (green) thus blocking the rails while there is a train at the stop. BUT when I put a signal there (in any configuration I could think of at the time) the train fails to path to this stop from its offload. it works just fine without a signal there. In both configurations, the train could path to the offload, but with the signal splitting this into two blocks the train could not path from the offload to the stop.

[ratchetfreak]

if you hover over 1 orange signal is the other highlighted?

[orzelek]

It looks from picture like they are indeed disconnected - that section can't be really passed by train.

[RickyRio]

if you hover over 1 orange signal is the other highlighted?

Yes.

Removing one of the two causes the train to fail to path from this stop or the offload stop. (left one removed prevents this stop from being reached, the right one removed prevents the offload stop from being reached)

[RickyRio]

More images of my train system in case I have screwed something else up and that is the problem instead

Train T Junction

Train Offload

All other parts of my network are straight rail between T junctions.

[roothorick]

1. Your original bypass has me all kinds of confused. Did you intend that the train could stop there coming from either direction? Then why isn't there a second train stop? If it's supposed to be one way, why is there a leg going back north? And why isn't the merge on the south end signaled correctly? What is this even supposed to be?

2. Your offload stations are back-out, therefore bidirectional, but they're signalled as one-way. Trains leaving the area won't be signal-controlled within that area and therefore, well, you're gonna lose trains.

[sillyfly]

2. Your offload stations are back-out, therefore bidirectional, but they're signalled as one-way. Trains leaving the area won't be signal-controlled within that area and therefore, well, you're gonna lose trains.

Actually, a signal on one side makes it so automatic trains can't go the other way, so any train getting into those offload stations would stop with "No Path" error.

[RickyRio]

1. Your original bypass has me all kinds of confused. Did you intend that the train could stop there coming from either direction? Then why isn't there a second train stop? If it's supposed to be one way, why is there a leg going back north? And why isn't the merge on the south end signaled correctly? What is this even supposed to be?

2. Your offload stations are back-out, therefore bidirectional, but they're signalled as one-way. Trains leaving the area won't be signal-controlled within that area and therefore, well, you're gonna lose trains.

1: I want the train to be able to continue on the outbound track or be able to take the return track after going to the stop.

2: how would I fix this?

[RickyRio]

2. Your offload stations are back-out, therefore bidirectional, but they're signalled as one-way. Trains leaving the area won't be signal-controlled within that area and therefore, well, you're gonna lose trains.

Actually, a signal on one side makes it so automatic trains can't go the other way, so any train getting into those offload stations would stop with "No Path" error.

God i feel dumb. this fixed the whole problem.

Added a signal where the red circle is:

Fixed offload

[hitzu]

I didn't check them, but in my mind these layouts should work.

+

Your T-intersection is bad - it would be closed for every direction if occupied, even if trains' routes don't cross each other. There are better examples somewhere on the forum.

[sillyfly]

The lower left signal in the offload station doesn't have to be a chain signal - having the train stop at the one in the middle won't block any train that wouldn't be blocked by stopping in it.

[Tallinu]

I didn't check them, but in my mind these layouts should work.

The lower left signal in the offload station doesn't have to be a chain signal - having the train stop at the one in the middle won't block any train that wouldn't be blocked by stopping in it.

In fact, you don't need a signal in those locations (before the left turns into the offload stations) at all - the next signals (one on the turning track, one on the continuing straight track) do a perfectly fine job of breaking the incoming track into sufficient blocks.

It's also worth noting that between the unloading stations, on the westbound track, you should have only a single chain signal between each station and the regular signal should occur only after a departing train is past all of those intersections.

(edit: Maybe this will help visualize it - you want the unloading area cut up into these blocks by your signal placement: http://imgur.com/ZRz31KS )

Additionally, Hitzu, there are some extraneous signals on your markup of the loading siding:

At the siding's south exit, there's no need for two-way signaling, since a train can never be entering it going northbound from that left track.
To the right of the top of the siding, the pair of signals just south of the fork should also be one signal for that southbound rail - only the siding needs the option to reverse out.
On the crossover between the northbound and southbound track, you only need a signal on the southeast side of it, to allow the departing train onto the northbound track - you'll never have a train incoming from the right track into that crossover.
Similarly, to the upper left of that, there should only be a chain signal controlling southbound traffic, with no signal on the right side of the track (again, that's a one way track and should not allow trains to enter it going north).

With those changes to Hitzu's suggested layout, you shouldn't have any problems and everything should run pretty smoothly.

[hitzu]

Additionally, Hitzu, there are some extraneous signals on your markup of the loading siding:

Actually I forgot where the two-way block begins and ends so I added few more signals just in the case.