[0.11.22] Consuming energy from two networks

[XKnight]

Machines incorrectly consume energy from two different electric networks.
Consider next build:


Current behaviour:


Expected behaviour:
Radar consume 60kW from each network.

[DaveMcW]

Also, if you hover over the radar,

/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.energy)
2230.769


If you connect the substations,

/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.energy)
2000


It gets even better with 3 networks and 3 solar panels.

connected substations: 3000
disconnected substations: 3949.777

[XKnight]

Also, if you over over the radar,

/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.energy)
2230.769


If you connect the substations, you get:

/c game.player.print(game.player.selected.energy)
2000

Energy from air. Profit

[DaveMcW]

Here is a save with 11 solar panels on 11 networks fully powering 4 radars.

11Networks.zip

(2.11 MiB) Downloaded 98 times

The best network is producing 205kW from 1 solar panel!

[Rseding91]

Electric consumption is done via this method:

For each electric network:
From all producers transfer to consumers

Now, the reported information may be a little wrong but the consumption total for the entity remains the same and it doesn't use more power than is generated from the electric producing devices or fabricate energy to run.

[Rseding91]

Also: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =58&t=5804

[XKnight]

Electric consumption is done via this method:

For each electric network:
From all producers transfer to consumers

Now, the reported information may be a little wrong but the consumption total for the entity remains the same and it doesn't use more power than is generated from the electric producing devices or fabricate energy to run.

I've used next build to check the "real" energy consumption:
two machines are producing gears; first is connected to single network; second is connected to two separated networks;
time: from sunrise to sunset.


Results:
separated networks: produced 478 gears
merged network: produced 416 gears

According to experiment result, machine fabricate some energy when it is connected to several electric networks.

[Rseding91]

Electric consumption is done via this method:

For each electric network:
From all producers transfer to consumers

Now, the reported information may be a little wrong but the consumption total for the entity remains the same and it doesn't use more power than is generated from the electric producing devices or fabricate energy to run.

I've used next build to check the "real" energy consumption:
two machines are producing gears; first is connected to single network; second is connected to two separated networks;
time: from sunrise to sunset.


Results:
separated networks: produced 478 gears
merged network: produced 416 gears

According to experiment result, machine fabricate some energy when it is connected to several electric networks.

That's an inaccurate representation of energy production and usage - you're bypassing the input flow limit of the assembling machine by providing 2 different energy sources that both give up to the input flow limit of the machine.

Try this setup and the results are identical between each assembling machine:

Capture.PNG (480.23 KiB) Viewed 4686 times

[XKnight]

That's an inaccurate representation of energy production and usage - you're bypassing the input flow limit of the assembling machine by providing 2 different energy sources that both give up to the input flow limit of the machine.

Try this setup and the results are identical between each assembling machine:

Yes, in your build everything is correct. But initial problem is "Machines incorrectly consume energy from two different electric networks", and in your case machines consume energy only from one network (accumulator).
So, can you give any answer about initial-build's behaviour: is this bug/feature/by design? will it be fixed or not? if not, can we rely on it? (maybe someone want to use "energy from air" )

[Rseding91]

That's an inaccurate representation of energy production and usage - you're bypassing the input flow limit of the assembling machine by providing 2 different energy sources that both give up to the input flow limit of the machine.

Try this setup and the results are identical between each assembling machine:

Yes, in your build everything is correct. But initial problem is "Machines incorrectly consume energy from two different electric networks", and in your case machines consume energy only from one network (accumulator).
So, can you give any answer about initial-build's behaviour: is this bug/feature/by design? will it be fixed or not? if not, can we rely on it? (maybe someone want to use "energy from air" )

It's not "energy from air" - it's increased energy throughput (doubles the energy consumption rate) - the total energy generated by the solar panels never exceeds that of 2 solar panels.

And in fact, it has no benefit unless you're low on power. In any setup where there is sufficient power to run the machine at full speed it will never run faster from being on 2 or more networks.

[XKnight]

That's an inaccurate representation of energy production and usage - you're bypassing the input flow limit of the assembling machine by providing 2 different energy sources that both give up to the input flow limit of the machine.

Try this setup and the results are identical between each assembling machine:

Yes, in your build everything is correct. But initial problem is "Machines incorrectly consume energy from two different electric networks", and in your case machines consume energy only from one network (accumulator).
So, can you give any answer about initial-build's behaviour: is this bug/feature/by design? will it be fixed or not? if not, can we rely on it? (maybe someone want to use "energy from air" )

It's not "energy from air" - it's increased energy throughput (doubles the energy consumption rate) - the total energy generated by the solar panels never exceeds that of 2 solar panels.

Energy generated by solar panals is correct. The problem is inconsistency between generated and consumed energy.

[UPDATE]

It is possible to use such bug to recieve extra energy:
You need to separate your main network in two:
- energy producers and accumulators (main network)
- energy producers with low rate (boosted network)

[DaveMcW]

Here is a standard radar outpost, with enough power and accumulators to run 24/7.

radar1.jpg (269.04 KiB) Viewed 4207 times

Here is the "free energy" version, also with enough power and accumulators to run 24/7. Note that the northern electric pole must be placed and disconnected last.

radar2.jpg (275.44 KiB) Viewed 4207 times

[bobingabout]

This is an old bug, that is well documented in the "Won't fix" subforum.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =58&t=5804

[sillyfly]

This is an old bug, that is well documented in the "Won't fix" subforum.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =58&t=5804

I'm not sure - this "won't fix" thread only talks about the inaccuracies in demand satisfaction. Perhaps the "free energy" part can/should be fixed regardless...