[0.12] Players don't check how turn on experimental updates

[ssilk]

I counted a bit and estimated a bit more:

- around 10% of all support issues do belong to "Oh, I need to update?"
- 5% are: "How?"
- another 5% belongs to bugs like "Already fixed, you need just to update".

That is too much. And it nerves me now, so that I need to make a bug report. In my eyes it is a bug, cause it directs (especially new) players needlessly into the support.

Please change the current behavior for 0.12 in a way,
- that every player will see his and the current version on starting screen and in game.
- that he will be asked for the first game start, that there are experimental updates, but are not downloaded and he needs to turn it on or can switch off this notice.

Eventually there are better ideas, but this reflects the current consensus.

[DaveMcW]

Experimental updates make the game buggier*. Giving newbies easier access to them, makes things worse.

It would be nice to have an article in tech support/bug reports on how to update to the latest version.

*Obviously 0.11 is very stable now, but that is a different topic.

[ofca]

This is alpha. There will be bugs. Everyone should know what they get into. That being said, this "alpha" is way more stable than many retail releases I've seen. Maybe make up current and stable channels, current being the default?

[ssilk]

Dave: The problem is not, that they use a buggy version. The problem is, that they don't know, that there is a newer version available. Or that they don't know how to update. Or that they report bugs from old versions.

Hm. I thought a bit around it. I think of the following use-cases:

A) Player starts Factorio (the first time):
The check shows, that he uses v0.10.5, but latest 0.10.12 is stable and latest 0.11.17 is unstable.
Requester:

Your version is 0.10.5. Latest stable version is 0.10.12. Latest experimental is 0.11.17!
What do you want?
O Quit game
O Ask me later
O Update to stable 0.10.12
(click to expand for advanced options)

If he clicks advanced options:
O Turn on experimental updates and update to experimental 0.11.17

If he chooses that:
"Take care!
Experimental updates include the danger for getting lost game-save, or might have strange effects to your gameplay. Blaaa.
You can switch off experimental updates at every time in the game-configuration!"


B) A user, that has turned on experimental updates

Your version is 0.10.5. Latest stable version is 0.10.12. Latest experimental is 0.11.17!
What do you want?
O Quit game
O Ask me later
O Update to 0.11.17 (experimental)
(click to expand for advanced options)

If he clicks advanced options:
O Turn off experimental updates and update to stable 0.10.12
You can change this at every time in the options!



There are of course more use-cases, when you switch back and forward, but I think the basic princible is clear with this two.

Edit: Changed instable to experimental.

[immibis]

Players shouldn't need to know about experimental updates - instead, major versions should be smaller, so that stable updates are more frequent.

(That might involve disabling unfinished features for stable version - imagine 0.11 stable with gates, spitters, tanks, new car graphics, new player graphics, guns on the car, etc... but not multiplayer)

[Arne431]

Players have to know about the experimental updates so they can be tested for bugs and issues.

[ssilk]

Well, the problem exists, and there are several cases, where an improved handling of "experimental updates" would help in supporting this game.

But I thought a bit yesterday and looked into several edge-cases of this problem and perhaps my suggested solution is not good enough thought through. I currently know, that I'm not able to know everything about the whole startup process. And to be honest: I don't want to know everything.

@dev-team: My current opinion is, that this "when will a user update and when not" and related stuff is nearly about to get a bit concentrated work of all devs (in the evening with a beer?). Go through all (edge) cases and generate a concept "how it should be". Maybe you can bring in some of the most important stuff into the 0.12. Cause I'm nearly sure, this will spare you in the end days, no!, weeks of support, when you go steam.

[slpwnd]

@dev-team: My current opinion is, that this "when will a user update and when not" and related stuff is nearly about to get a bit concentrated work of all devs (in the evening with a beer?). Go through all (edge) cases and generate a concept "how it should be". Maybe you can bring in some of the most important stuff into the 0.12. Cause I'm nearly sure, this will spare you in the end days, no!, weeks of support, when you go steam.

We already started talking about this with Cube. And yes, to come up with something reasonable (good balance between UI bloat and offering the user right choices). is quite tricky.

[Drury]

Factorio UI is a beautiful example of programmers struggling to overcome their true nature and design an actual useful UI. The result is servicable to say the least, which is in itself an incredible feat.

Speaking of which, the key bindings are a bit overwhelming, might want to put bare neccessities there and slap an advanced controls button for the rest. The most important stuff should be most easily reachable, the end user should have easy access only to small portions of information at once. Granted factorio players aren't the dumbest audience around, but anyone is able to appreciate simplicity in design.

[slpwnd]

Speaking of which, the key bindings are a bit overwhelming, might want to put bare neccessities there and slap an advanced controls button for the rest. The most important stuff should be most easily reachable, the end user should have easy access only to small portions of information at once. Granted factorio players aren't the dumbest audience around, but anyone is able to appreciate simplicity in design.

Extracting some functionality into a small separate in-game control panel has been on the list for a while. Again an UI challenge. But things like Production Gui, Toggling Map would go there.

[bobingabout]

Being forced to update to the latest experiemental update, or stable of that major update, if you're using an experimental version is not good either.

For example, when modding, I currently have a few different versions of 0.11.x installed in different folders, so I can compare code changes. A few big ones happened over the 0.11 series, such as the robo-port split in 0.11.3, and changing the inserter vector(forgot the number), and then again with the fluid input/output orders in 0.11.16(inputs) and 0.11.17(I think this was the one to fix outputs).

So I'll often keep these different versions so I can try and make my mod work on the whole 0.11.x range.

[ssilk]

Bobbingabout, that is a good steak you're bringing in here. I'm sure the devs will consider that. You're a modder. You know how Factorio works, where the options are, what the current actual version is. Even which version had which bugs. And of course how to turn on/off that options. I don't see any issue with that.

This is not thought for modders, but is about noobs, which doesn't know that and create a serious number of (unneeded) support questions because of that. Which eats the time of all forum users and of course also from the devs. This needs to be fixed mid-term and before the next version.