Better train loading system

[MadZuri]

Been working on this test rig for a while. 15 second loading, 10 second unloading, with all those crazy mixed items. My head hurts now.

[Marbles]

It's a nice idea, but with fast inserters being close to two times as fast as long handed inserters, the bonus of double inserters row can almost be negated. This solution does take advantage of double loading belts, but belt throughput can be solved in various other ways.

[vampiricdust]

Don't rain on his creation. I like the belt setups and the well thought design. Very neat and straight forward.

[quinor]

I did some tests and optimal solution is all fast inserters for loading and 4 middle fast and 2 side double-long for unloading. I don't use such long trains as on the picture though

[Neotix]

I'm using similar solution (for loading and unloading) but with some differences. My setup is: Belt -> 6 fast inserters -> wagon on double rail -> 12 double row of long inserters. First and last wagon have only 10 double row long inserters but it is still fast.

Something like that:

[MadZuri]

I suppose I should be a good scientist and actually post WHY fast inserters are inferior when unloading a train. I could walk you through all the math, but I will just summarize it by saying that it isn't the rotational speed that is the limiting factor, but the extension speed. I'll skip all the boring details and show a test rig:

That was for long, similar setup for fast was completed. Shown is a pretty simple detector timer circuit.

Fast Inserters - 746 on the counter
- chest distribution:
414 717 828 768 828 445

Long Inserters - 502 on the counter
- chest distribution:
568 749 641 641 733 668

As you can see, long inserters took almost exactly 2/3 the time of the fast inserters, and had a much flatter distribution. So, if you want 50% faster unloading, and better distribution of items, use long inserters.

Enjoy

[quinor]

Could you test hybrid setup with short-handed inserters in the middle (2-4 middle positons) where they don't have to extend so much and long-handed on sides? For me it was more optimal solution.

[DerivePi]

Impressive!

I've seen mixed blue and red inserters but never a double row of red.

With your setup, do you see an advantage in having one very quick unload / load station vs say two stations that have a more conventional system?

Also, I've always had more trouble getting the goods onto the belts rather than getting the goods off the wagons into the chests. Usually I find a faster unload is not the limiting factor. To take advantage, robot handling would have to be implemented I think.

[Marconos]

Great information, I will be making some design changes. I'm going to have to process over a million iron / minute (not to mention copper) and this may be better then the bot methods I was looking at.

[katyal]

If you absolutely have to unload the train as quickly as possible then replace the regular wagon with one from logistics wagons mod and use bots. If you carefully setup your roboports you can use storage wagons and use this technique to both load and unload faster. If we assume you're loading or unloading ore (stack size of 50) then 250 bots with max cargo size will empty that wagon almost instantly. Of course you need to keep your storage, wagon, and roboport close to each other and make sure to empty the storage between train arrivals.

[ssilk]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 891#p34869

[GlassDeviant]

I came up with this to equalize the amount of ore in each lane, and it will load a train of any length (it is more or less infinitely extendable) in 22 seconds on one side of the tracks, 11 seconds on both sides. Pity you can only adjust the train schedule in 5 second increments.

I have yet to try it with 6 inserters per cargo wagon, as it was not my goal to maximise loading speed, but to reduce the number of feedback lanes due to the binary nature of equalization algorithms. I suspect I could get the loading time down to a smidge over 18 seconds on one side, or 9 seconds on both, allowing me to set loading stops to 10 seconds duration.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~glassdeviant/exp ... alizer.jpg

[MadZuri]

Post 0.12 update: I reran these tests with the new 0.12 inserter mechanics and the results are that 2 rows of long inserters is exactly the same speed as 1 row of fast inserters. There is now no longer any benefit to having 2 rows of reds. It had a good run, while it lasted.

[OBAMA MCLAMA]

Post 0.12 update: I reran these tests with the new 0.12 inserter mechanics and the results are that 2 rows of long inserters is exactly the same speed as 1 row of fast inserters. There is now no longer any benefit to having 2 rows of reds. It had a good run, while it lasted.

I don't know, i feel like there can be extra benefits to having double red still, to say... http://puu.sh/j6geM/453ae4b5d8.jpg
I wouldn't use it for my main ore production, but for stone i feel it can easily be used, and maybe in other situations.

[orzelek]

Might be a strange question but do you need it really?

I'm guessing it's about emptying the train asap - more stations could solve that one also. Unless you are space constrained in some way.

I'm quite happy with 4 fasts per cargo wagon. And had strange issues with one of inserters when using 6 I think - one was not always working properly with wagon.

[OBAMA MCLAMA]

And had strange issues with one of inserters when using 6 I think - one was not always working properly with wagon.

Only have trains loading/unloading horizontal!

[MeduSalem]

And had strange issues with one of inserters when using 6 I think - one was not always working properly with wagon.

Only have trains loading/unloading horizontal!

Which reminds me of the fact that the devs need to re-do the locomotive and wagons anyways.

It's ridiculous that they are of different length depending on if they are horizontal or vertical.

And it's also ridiculous that longer trains suffer more and more from misalignments due to weird wagon lengths.

[DaveMcW]

The (not a) bug report is here, if you want to remind them.