Quality levels completely break factory
Quality levels completely break factory
So this has been talked around a little before, but I am starting a new thread because I haven't found any that discuss how completely it breaks your factory to start using quality modules without doing a complete redesign from the ground up and needing to basically build the same factory five times to engage with the quality system. After building an entire interplanetary factory empire without building a single quality I module, I decided to finally try engaging with the quality system in a pilot program on Fulgora, and I was totally unprepared for how broken it is. WHY do filters on splitters and inserters default to only applying to common quality items? WHY WHY WHY OH WHY can assemblers be set to only accept one quality of ingredient? I saw ingredient quality level on assembler recipes, and assumed that had to be a minimum, because, that was the only thing that made sense. I put quality module 3s on each of my scrap recyclers, so each one now outputs a random mixture of different quality levels. This completely broke my downstream filter setup, because contrary to what any logical person would think, an icon with just an item type and no quality level next to it means that filter only applies to quality 1 items and completely ignores higher quality items. And this is the default. Then I realized my belts were getting completely choked because none of my assemblers were accepting any of the higher quality ingredients because they can only accept Q1 items, and I can only pick ONE quality level for EVERY ingredient that assembler accepts. WHY WOULD YOU DESIGN IT THAT WAY????!?!??!?!??! I'm going to just have to remove all of the quality modules and go back to common quality on everything because I don't have the room to make a separate assembly line for every single quality level of every single ingredient. This exponentially complicates any factory design and I can't imagine it being worth it just for the little boost each higher quality item gets. What am I missing here?
-
coffee-factorio
- Filter Inserter
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:56 pm
- Contact:
Re: Quality levels completely break factory
You have to look for technologies that overlap and develop those.
The canonic hint, is to examine beacons, modules, and an assembler at 2 different qualities. The "mistake" is to examine them at legendary.
It is also better to attack the issue with massive economies of whatever you're approaching the problem with. Compared to Seablock which applies calculus, this is easier to get into but harder to operate. It tends to make people either over analyze the problem or over indulge in it.
The canonic hint, is to examine beacons, modules, and an assembler at 2 different qualities. The "mistake" is to examine them at legendary.
It is also better to attack the issue with massive economies of whatever you're approaching the problem with. Compared to Seablock which applies calculus, this is easier to get into but harder to operate. It tends to make people either over analyze the problem or over indulge in it.
Re: Quality levels completely break factory
Quality breaks Gleba.
Yes, I know mentioning Gleba can be contentious at times, but this is not that kind of topic.
We all know that when we craft something of higher quality, we burn a lot of raw ingredients to nothingness and spoilage.
This is an example with made-up numbers. To craft 1k Gleba science packs at baseline quality, I need enough raw material for 1k science packs. At quality-2, I need at least the raw ingredients for 4k science packs to match the equivalent of 1k Gleba science value*. At quality-5, I need even more raw resources to keep the same science value.
Here are a few quality-related problems that do not apply to other non-Gleba science packs.
The time between crafting and then Gleba packs being consumed at the lab causes science value loss. A baseline science pack loses approximately 1% science value per minute, so 15 minutes of travel time means 15% loss per pack at quality-1. At quality-5, the same 15 minutes means about 60% science loss, or four times as fast per pack.
Waiting for a full rocket load for each quality level slightly decreases potential science value the longer packs sit in storage before being loaded into a rocket payload. I don't know if that has changed in the 2.1 experimental, as I haven't played that version yet. But I assume it will look for any quality and combine them into a rocket payload, which might help mitigate science value loss from waiting for a full payload. Assuming that's how it works in the 2.1 experimental version.
Dealing with mixed-quality logistics during production means those items might spoil before machines have enough to craft something.
A larger harvesting operation is needed to support higher-tier Gleba science pack production, which means more pentapod activity for only slightly lower science value than a non-quality Gleba science pack production line. Those tradeoffs make the higher-tier production line harder to justify.
TL;DR Summary: Don't craft Gleba past baseline quality. The return does not justify the significant investment required to up-tier Gleba science packs.
Don't get me wrong, there are viable scenarios in which higher-tier science packs work great. That said, up-tiering Gleba science packs needs a little tweaking so the value tradeoff is more favorable.
Gleba science value*: a quality-1 science pack gives 100% value, quality-2 gives 200%, and so on, up to quality-5 at 600%. Each quality level also has its own spoilage time, starting at quality-1 with 1 hour and up to quality-5 with 2.5 hours.
Yes, I know mentioning Gleba can be contentious at times, but this is not that kind of topic.
We all know that when we craft something of higher quality, we burn a lot of raw ingredients to nothingness and spoilage.
This is an example with made-up numbers. To craft 1k Gleba science packs at baseline quality, I need enough raw material for 1k science packs. At quality-2, I need at least the raw ingredients for 4k science packs to match the equivalent of 1k Gleba science value*. At quality-5, I need even more raw resources to keep the same science value.
Here are a few quality-related problems that do not apply to other non-Gleba science packs.
The time between crafting and then Gleba packs being consumed at the lab causes science value loss. A baseline science pack loses approximately 1% science value per minute, so 15 minutes of travel time means 15% loss per pack at quality-1. At quality-5, the same 15 minutes means about 60% science loss, or four times as fast per pack.
Waiting for a full rocket load for each quality level slightly decreases potential science value the longer packs sit in storage before being loaded into a rocket payload. I don't know if that has changed in the 2.1 experimental, as I haven't played that version yet. But I assume it will look for any quality and combine them into a rocket payload, which might help mitigate science value loss from waiting for a full payload. Assuming that's how it works in the 2.1 experimental version.
Dealing with mixed-quality logistics during production means those items might spoil before machines have enough to craft something.
A larger harvesting operation is needed to support higher-tier Gleba science pack production, which means more pentapod activity for only slightly lower science value than a non-quality Gleba science pack production line. Those tradeoffs make the higher-tier production line harder to justify.
TL;DR Summary: Don't craft Gleba past baseline quality. The return does not justify the significant investment required to up-tier Gleba science packs.
Don't get me wrong, there are viable scenarios in which higher-tier science packs work great. That said, up-tiering Gleba science packs needs a little tweaking so the value tradeoff is more favorable.
Gleba science value*: a quality-1 science pack gives 100% value, quality-2 gives 200%, and so on, up to quality-5 at 600%. Each quality level also has its own spoilage time, starting at quality-1 with 1 hour and up to quality-5 with 2.5 hours.