I kinda hate Vulcanus

[mmmPI]

Not everyone find Nauvis "hard" to the point that they think the gimmick of Vulcanus is "being easy" in comparaison , the more you play the easier the game feel in general imo , that's why there are so many mods i suppose ^^

I think what was mentionned was rather the existence of gimmicks, and for that case you have the lava to void items and Vulcanus is also about getting tungsten.

You can't expect the devs to make a game that match everyone expectation on difficulty level, Gleba ? too hard Vulcanus , too easy ? lol devs really have to be spot on for the difficulty level, that's probably also why there are so many mods, it would appear most player can in fact install a mod !

[sarge945]

This is the real reason that it is the way it is. Each planet is like its own little mini-game. Vulcanus is really there to introduce the player to space travel, logistics, and so on. Solar panels work extremely well which makes it easy to reach with a basic space platform. Power production is extremely easy. Demolishers won't attach you unless you aggress first. Etc. The planet is built to introduce you to the whole process of reaching a planet, starting from scratch, finding out what the puzzle is, solving that puzzle, and finally setting up some space logistics to connect it to the rest of your factories. It does that extremely well.

It's a little bit like complaining that level 1-1 of Mario is too easy. I mean of course it is. The people who say Vulcanus is too easy are like people who think they should move their main base off Nauvis and onto Vulcanus - IMHO, these people just don't "get it". I mean why not just replay world 1-1 over and over? It's so much easier than world 8-3.

Are we here to do easy things, or are we here to find and overcome new and interesting challenges?

The thing is, while it's definitely a tutorial planet, it also makes sense why people who are experienced and who have defeated the challenges of Vulcanus previously would want to make it harder, in line with the other planets.

So I would appreciate some sort of first-party means (like a checkbox during map generation) to make it harder somehow, sort of like a New Game + option.

For now, mods will suffice.

Mods sort of are the perfect balance mechanism right now anyway.

You have everything from cheat mods to make the game super easy, all the way up to big overhauls like Pyanodons where everything is an order of magnitude harder. Personally I like a sort of middle ground where everything is mostly vanilla, but a little bit harder (by adding bztin and a few other resource mods), while not using full overhauls. Mods are almost perfect in that they can allow everyone to adjust their playthrough difficulty to their liking.

[mmmPI]

The thing is, while it's definitely a tutorial planet, it also makes sense why people who are experienced and who have defeated the challenges of Vulcanus previously would want to make it harder, in line with the other planets.

So I would appreciate some sort of first-party means (like a checkbox during map generation) to make it harder somehow, sort of like a New Game + option.

When i read this i feel like you've struggled on every planet except Vulcanus , but i think once you've found your mark for Fulgora or even Gleba you won't necessarily consider Vulcanus as the tutorial planet whose difficulty needs to be raised "like the others", but rather you can increase the difficulty of all the planets , Like Fulgora having no ennemy is the first thing i tried to make harder for myself after my first few games, with mods.

Vulcanus is also the planet where many players consider doing quality, which can make it the "most complicated planet" for players unfamiliar with quality i feel. In such case you don't necessarily need mods

In any case there are already in game quite a lot of sliders you can increase to make the game harder for yourself, for Vulcanus, you can always reduce the amount of Tungsten present on the map to create a need for much more exploration and fighting, or the richness of sulfur, to make electricity more challenging over time, forcing the need for more "fluid logistic"

[waterBear]

Vulcanus trivializes vast swaths of metal-based industry. The question is whether the game is supposed to be about the things you can do when metals are trivial, or if that was still a large portion of the game and people have to come up with pet rules to keep it interesting.

It's OK if new technology makes certain parts of the game easier. Bots make it easier to place a blueprint, to repair things automatically, and a bunch of other things. I'm sure when they added bots to the game for the first time, there was at least someone who thought it made the game too easy.

Trains make it easier to transport things long distances.

Being able to change which side of a belt is used by an inserter makes the game easier.

So on and so on. You get my point. We could sit here and make a list of a hundred different tech unlocks and patches that "make the game easier." That's OK. By the time you unlock a foundry, you pretty much understand "metal-based industry". Making iron plates, iron gear wheels, and all those things is a challenge you should have thoroughly conquered by that point.

Sure, the fluid bus is easier to manage than other solutions which would otherwise supply metal items to factories. But I'm OK with that for the same reason I'm OK with bots existing. I don't really want to run 4 rail loops with 5-20 trains on them for transporting mega-base levels of iron plates. I'd kinda rather just move on from that to the next most interesting challenge, and I think designing a factory that outputs 7 or more stacked turbo belts of each science forces you to engage with belt-based (and other) logistic challenges sufficiently. I don't need any more than that

[worph]

I spent a good chunk testing and bootstrapping the different planets to get express delivery, and I have to say, the bootstrap for Vulcanus is definitely interesting. (assuming you don't come in a drop a finished factory from orbit). I like how all the different systems play together when setting everything up, and it is quite complex.
But I agree that once everything is up and running and you have defeated enough worms to get tungsten back via rail, there is really not much flavor left to the planet. Bots are used to just copy and paste existing designs.

Expanding on Fulgora is always more interesting due to space constraints. Plus, there is always the inevitable deadlock if you haven't spent 1000 hours understanding and optimizing everything already.
Pentapods and spoilage will always need some of you attention on Gleba, similar to biters and their eggs on Nauvis.
Expansions on Aquilio are a challenge in and of themselves and will need your attention or at least require you to setup and maintain a robust logistics system so you can keep building new stuff.
But Vulcanus just does everything without any hassle. You only have to come back every once in a while to shoot some railguns through worms and place some new rail to tungsten and ore patches.
The planet would be more interesting immediately without bots. (just to give an example) Because then it becomes at least a belt challenge again. Or if rockets were much more expensive. Or if there was ANY ressource you could not manufacture there AT all, and had to ship it in. It's not that Vulcanus is too easy (it is but that is not the core problem), its that there is not enough variance in what happens on its surface and your factories there. It needs SOME disruption occasionally that requires you to problemsolve beforehand or react appropriately if you don't take steps in advance.

[waterBear]

I spent a good chunk testing and bootstrapping the different planets to get express delivery, and I have to say, the bootstrap for Vulcanus is definitely interesting. (assuming you don't come in a drop a finished factory from orbit). I like how all the different systems play together when setting everything up, and it is quite complex.

Agreed. Bootstrapping Vulcanus is quite fun to do. So there's that.

[worph]

I had idea while bootstrapping vulcanus in 2.1.9 for how to improve the planet:

Seismology

Make the planet itself your main enemy here.

Every once in a while, in some randomly chosen chunk, there is a chance that a handful of tiles turns to thick lava. Like maybe every 10-30 minutes. Think the size of a very small biter nest and a similar expansion feeling. This can be any chunk. There is also a chance that any older thick lava tiles will return to normal again, in a similar style, but they should last a few hours (this is to prevent the planet from becoming a giant lava lake).

You can landfill over this or use something made of calcite and water to harden it, when a roboport is near it will automatically do this so long as the items are available.

When a building is on op of it, it very slowly takes damage until you defeat the thick lava. If it gets destroyed it will automatically place a a ghost in it's place.
Foundations are immune to this.

Rails and roboports

With this change you cannot just run rails or roboports in a single daisychain.
Rails should not take damage like buildings do, but be temporarily disabled.
This means you need to place additional rails far enough apart from one another, so that if one gets temporarily disrupted, there are alternatives set up.
Same with single roboport daisy chains. But the further you go out from the center, the more ressources it will cost to plaster everything with roboports.


With this idea, there is a good chance that Vuldanus keeps a little fresh. Sometimes there will be a disruption and you will need to take preventative measures to make sure your factory can deal with this thick lava occasionally. But if your rail get destroyed and it's your only connection you must send a spidertron/tank to the area or maybe even go there yourself.

[Warpspeed]

I agree with OP here. Vulcanus isn't that interesting of a puzzle mainly because the fluid mechanics had nearly all their limitations removed which means there's not many restrictions left to design fluid puzzles around.

The fact that pipes can instantly transmit an unlimited amount of fluid (within a 320 tile range) means that you only need one pipe network, and do not need to fit pumps into your factory tetrominoes.

Suppose pipe networks had an arbitrary cap such as only transferring 6000 fluid per second total between providers and consumers. You would need multiple runs of pipe to fit in to your factory. This opens up the design space for other pipes to increase that transmission cap, either from quality or from a Big Pipe technology. Adjacent pipes with different transmission caps would be separate fluid networks.

TL;DR Vulcanus is fundamentally as interesting of a puzzle as the core fluid mechanics allow.