Version 2.1.9

[emty]

With this, my Vulcanus base should be able to become much smaller now.

Wondering if you know the trick of pointing a pump into a foundry that constantly switches Recipes to delete the Fluid inside it at an insane rate.

It is quite UPS unfriendly though.
For me it's like 4-5% of the whole game update time wasted extra on Control Behaviors just for two voiding networks.

[GregoriusT]

Yeah I prefer actually making use of the Molten Copper for normal Stuff or LDS Shuffle, but even then it will still overflow massively to the point that I end up using lesser quality calcite like uncommon and rare to make Stone from the molten Iron recipe.

[Jan]

So much amazing work, Thanks Wube!

I hope, we also get more official Achievements on the final patch.

[Nelyus]

I wanted to say since 2.1.8 the game launches a lot quicker, and without freeze (on my MacBook M2 Pro).

The new wording "Enable if" is great. A similar change would be welcome in platform and train schedules. I often wonder if the conditions are "stay if" or "leave if".

[Shirasik]

Minor Features

• Decider combinator supports else-output.

Finally no shenanigans around zero-value signals for fail-safe control networks.

[The_Mormegil]

Minor feature request: I'd like it if on space platforms, the planet filter also included a wildcard. Currently it seems like the only way for a space platform to request ammo from every other space platform is to make a request for ammo from platforms above Nauvis, one from platforms above Gleba, one for Vulcanus, Fulgora, Aquilo, et cetera. It's very noticeable now that inter-platform logistics exist.

[Filcius]

Minor feature request: I'd like it if on space platforms, the planet filter also included a wildcard. Currently it seems like the only way for a space platform to request ammo from every other space platform is to make a request for ammo from platforms above Nauvis, one from platforms above Gleba, one for Vulcanus, Fulgora, Aquilo, et cetera. It's very noticeable now that inter-platform logistics exist.

I think it does since version 2.1. Make a request, remove the planet icon : this should act as a wildcard.

[sarge945]

I've noticed in 2.1 that with the new "smart" rocket launches, it sometimes sends up some tiny amount (like 4) space platform and nothing else. This isn't just inefficient, it actively makes the situation even worse, because if I'm having trouble building space platform, the unnecessary rockets containing only a small amount are wasted and thus my resources are further drained sending up partial stacks.

Could the logic be amended to ALWAYS send a full rocket if it's not a mixed rocket? Sending 4 space platform along with 50 inserters when I only need 1 inserter is *technically* fine, even if a bit inefficient, because I may need more inserters at some point so it's not a big deal, but sending up only 4 space platform because that's all I have on the surface is wrong, it should wait for a full rocket instead, no matter how long it takes.

This can be "fixed" by turning off automated construction requests and setting up a manual request for 50 space platforms, with a custom minimum payload of 50 in order to save rockets, but I think the logic should just work.

Maybe under the "Auto request missing construction materials" checkbox there should be another checkbox to "prefer full rockets only", which will always wait for a completely full rocket in every case, rather than sending up a partial stack.

Has anyone else noticed similar issues with the way the new logic works?

I guess this is a consequence of the changes that made it so you wouldn't be stuck waiting for rockets because you didn't quite have a full stack, which is fine, I just wish we could turn it off because sometimes rockets count.

[GregoriusT]

I've noticed in 2.1 that with the new "smart" rocket launches, it sometimes sends up 4 space platform and nothing else. This isn't just inefficient, it actively makes the situation even worse, because if I'm having trouble building space platform, the unnecessary rockets containing only a small amount are wasted and thus my resources are further drained sending u partial stacks.

Could the logic be amended to ALWAYS send a full rocket if it's not a mixed rocket? Sending 4 space platform along with 50 inserters when I only need 1 inserter is *technically* fine, even if a bit inefficient, because I may need more inserters at some point so it's not a big deal, but sending up only 4 space platform because that's all I have on the surface is wrong, it should wait for a full rocket instead, no matter how long it takes.

This can be "fixed" by turning off automated construction requests and setting up a manual request for 50 space platforms, with a custom minimum payload of 50 in order to save rockets, but I think the logic should just work.

Maybe under the "Auto request missing construction materials" checkbox there should be another checkbox to "prefer full rockets only", which will always wait for a completely full rocket in every case, rather than sending up a partial stack.

Has anyone else noticed similar issues with the way the new logic works?

I guess this is a consequence of the changes that made it so you wouldn't be stuck waiting for rockets because you didn't quite have a full stack, which is fine, I just wish we could turn it off because sometimes rockets count.

Wait didnt the FFF specifically say it will fill the rocket to full with whatever is requested in order to launch it? did they say that wrongly in the FFF?

[sarge945]

Wait didnt the FFF specifically say it will fill the rocket to full with whatever is requested in order to launch it? did they say that wrongly in the FFF?

It fills the rocket up with as much as it can, which in this case is only space platform, which I need a LOT of, but am not building very quickly (because I have a shortage of a modded resource that I need in order to build it, so it only builds 3-4 a minute)

For mixed rockets and dealing with shortages, the game works correctly, I'm referring to this part of the FFF where they talk about not waiting around for items to be fully availab,e and instead simply deliver what they can.

Things get tricky if you have too few unsatisfied requests to fill a rocket. Sending the rocket half-empty would be wasteful, but we didn't know how to solve it nicely when making 2.0. In 2.1 we decided that we should select the most requested items and overdeliver them because you likely want more. Delaying the rocket until players request more items wouldn't be intuitive and wouldn't really work with the "all requests satisfied" condition.

Even when overdelivering some items, the algorithm can still fail to find a complete batch due to our sorting constraints. It usually happens when you don't have enough supply in your logistic network. The logic hopes that missing items will be produced eventually and wants to wait. Some co-workers were confused about it during our playtesting, so I opted to fall back to single-item rockets to keep things flowing.

I feel like this is useful in *most* cases, but when you have a critical shortage you'll get rockets with like 2 space platform in them, because I think it's timing out waiting and just launches it anyway.

I think being able to turn this off and opt-in to waiting would be a good improvement for these sorts of critical shortage cases.

[meganothing]

The relevant FFF quote is

Even when overdelivering some items, the algorithm can still fail to find a complete batch due to our sorting constraints. It usually happens when you don't have enough supply in your logistic network. The logic hopes that missing items will be produced eventually and wants to wait. Some co-workers were confused about it during our playtesting, so I opted to fall back to single-item rockets to keep things flowing.

I also made various other tweaks, so the fallback should be very rare and we can change it more based on players' feedback.

So they first made rockets to be full but it confused players. So they turned that off again.

One thing to improve the situation could be to have a delay/timer of a few minutes if the rocket isn't full. When no new supply arrives at the rocket in that time even single items get sent. If new items arrive the timer resets

[sarge945]

The relevant FFF quote is

Even when overdelivering some items, the algorithm can still fail to find a complete batch due to our sorting constraints. It usually happens when you don't have enough supply in your logistic network. The logic hopes that missing items will be produced eventually and wants to wait. Some co-workers were confused about it during our playtesting, so I opted to fall back to single-item rockets to keep things flowing.

I also made various other tweaks, so the fallback should be very rare and we can change it more based on players' feedback.

So they first made rockets to be full but it confused players. So they turned that off again.

One thing to improve the situation could be to have a delay/timer of a few minutes if the rocket isn't full. When no new supply arrives at the rocket in that time even single items get sent. If new items arrive the timer resets

Yeah, it's waiting, but at 3-4 platform per minute (I've fixed my supply shortage now, thankfully, so it's no longer an issue, but still), it still launches almost entirely empty rockets after a minute or so.

I fixed it by using a custom minimum payload of 50, so it IS work-aroundable, but then you miss out on mixed rockets if only 40 is available and you need something else, and it's just hacky in general.

[meganothing]

The relevant FFF quote is

Even when overdelivering some items, the algorithm can still fail to find a complete batch due to our sorting constraints. It usually happens when you don't have enough supply in your logistic network. The logic hopes that missing items will be produced eventually and wants to wait. Some co-workers were confused about it during our playtesting, so I opted to fall back to single-item rockets to keep things flowing.

I also made various other tweaks, so the fallback should be very rare and we can change it more based on players' feedback.

So they first made rockets to be full but it confused players. So they turned that off again.

One thing to improve the situation could be to have a delay/timer of a few minutes if the rocket isn't full. When no new supply arrives at the rocket in that time even single items get sent. If new items arrive the timer resets

Yeah, it's waiting, but at 3-4 platform per minute (I've fixed my supply shortage now, thankfully, so it's no longer an issue, but still), it still launches almost entirely empty rockets after a minute or so.

I fixed it by using a custom minimum payload of 50, so it IS work-aroundable, but then you miss out on mixed rockets if only 40 is available and you need something else, and it's just hacky in general.

Sounds like they may be waiting but not reseting the wait timer when new items arrive.

[sarge945]

The relevant FFF quote is

Even when overdelivering some items, the algorithm can still fail to find a complete batch due to our sorting constraints. It usually happens when you don't have enough supply in your logistic network. The logic hopes that missing items will be produced eventually and wants to wait. Some co-workers were confused about it during our playtesting, so I opted to fall back to single-item rockets to keep things flowing.

I also made various other tweaks, so the fallback should be very rare and we can change it more based on players' feedback.

So they first made rockets to be full but it confused players. So they turned that off again.

One thing to improve the situation could be to have a delay/timer of a few minutes if the rocket isn't full. When no new supply arrives at the rocket in that time even single items get sent. If new items arrive the timer resets

Yeah, it's waiting, but at 3-4 platform per minute (I've fixed my supply shortage now, thankfully, so it's no longer an issue, but still), it still launches almost entirely empty rockets after a minute or so.

I fixed it by using a custom minimum payload of 50, so it IS work-aroundable, but then you miss out on mixed rockets if only 40 is available and you need something else, and it's just hacky in general.

Sounds like they may be waiting but not reseting the wait timer when new items arrive.

No, I think the actual wait timer is just short enough that producing less than 4 or 5 items per minute will exceed the maximum wait timer.

I would be fine with this in normal cases, I just wish we had a "always wait for the most efficient rocket payload" checkbox, which would wait indefinitely until it can fill a rocket.