[2.0.76] Entire system hard crashes on Map Preview

[Narishm]

I am having an issue when I click the Map Preview button when generating a new map. The entire system freezes, then reboots without showing a blue screen or error message at all. This is repeatable, every time I open Factorio and click on the Map Preview button.

If I open the settings and change the number of cores being used (I currently have it set to 1). It will display the preview, but if I make any changes, it freezes again.

Operating System: Windows 11 Pro 64-Bit
CPU: 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-12700KF (3.60 GHz)
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 (8 GB)
Ram: 32 GB

I have updated the nVidia drivers, and checked the PSU. I have also cleaned the system and made sure it wasn't overheating.

[Loewchen]

That means the system is defective.

[Narishm]

The system that works perfectly with everything else, except for Factorio, is defective? Why is that always the answer when I point out a bug with a game? It couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the game. I have found dozens of others having this issue with a simple Google search, and were told the same thing, then a bug report about this being a known issue in the past.

If everything else on the system works perfectly, and others have the same issue, and everything else on their systems works perfectly. Isn't it kind of arrogant to say "Oh your system is defective," because it couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the game?

[boskid]

One of goals of operating systems is to keep faulty software from crashing the machine or the os itself. Map preview happens to create couple of threads to speed up map generation and that increases a cpu load. If there were any unsafe operations here that would cause a pc crash, it should be prevented by operating system. Only case where it could not would be if hardware is unstable.

[Narishm]

If it were a system instability then I would be able to cause the same issue with other programs or games by taxing the CPU in that way. Which I cannot, it is only happening with Factorio, and only happening at the Map Preview screen. The system is show no signs of instability with anything, not even leading up to the crash. But when I press that button, Windows locks up and crashes without a blue screen. Then the system restarts.

I cannot replicate this, even when my system is under extreme stress unless I go way past it's limits.

[Loewchen]

The system that works perfectly with everything else, except for Factorio, is defective?

Yes.

It couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the game.

There is nothing a userspace application could do to cause a system crash on non defective hardware even if it tried to intentionally.

I have found dozens of others having this issue with a simple Google search, and were told the same thing

Dozens? You could have found hundreds on this forum alone, broken hardware is anything but rare.

If everything else on the system works perfectly, and others have the same issue, and everything else on their systems works perfectly [...]

That is like telling the doctor in the ICU that you cannot have a heart condition because it only stops beating when you do intense cardio training and you found people on the Internet that had the exact same problem.

Map preview generation utilizes the processor completely, it works as a benchmark, if your system crashes while doing it, it is not stable.

[Narishm]

Benchmarks are known for pushing systems to a crashing point. So if the game contains a surprise benchmark hidden in a place where no one would think it was there, that surprise pushes all the limits of the PC at once. You don't think that's a game issue?

Following your ICU analogy, there are lots of people who are quite healthy and would be in serious trouble if you forced them to sprint a marathon randomly in the middle of their workday. It doesn't mean they are out of shape or unhealthy; it means you pushed an unrealistic expectation on them out of the blue.

I should have expected this response though, I've not met a dev (or community manager) yet that will admit the game is doing something untowards. Much easier to blame their customers.

[Atraps003]

It sounds like you already reduced max-map-preview-threads? Try reducing max-map-preview-chunk-side

[Narishm]

Look at that, a user with actual useful info on fixing this issue. This actually worked, provided you knew you could get a secret settings menu by holding CTRL+ALT when you click settings. Thank you for the assist Atraps003.

[pioruns]

It's always funny to read users being in denial and protecting their defective system, ever when speaking directly with game developer.

I did nothing wrong, officer!

Even Raptor Lake users do that sometimes which is most funny, because these systems have highest probability of being defective.

[pioruns]

I should have expected this response though, I've not met a dev (or community manager) yet that will admit the game is doing something untowards. Much easier to blame their customers.

It's so dumb to say that... Literally you can find hundreds of game bugs being fixed here, just look into bug reports subforum, devs read the report, fix the problem with their product, and next thing you see is fixed in [game version] and occassional thanking user for the report which lead to fixing the game and making it better.

You are so in denial.

[Narishm]

Go back and play with your train set, the adults are talking.

[pioruns]

Go back and play with your train set, the adults are talking.

Good luck with your broken system, friend.

@Loewchen I guess you could close this thead, OP knows everything already.

[Rseding91]

Following your ICU analogy, there are lots of people who are quite healthy and would be in serious trouble if you forced them to sprint a marathon randomly in the middle of their workday. It doesn't mean they are out of shape or unhealthy; it means you pushed an unrealistic expectation on them out of the blue.

Actually, yes: that’s exactly what it means. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/d ... tress-test

Look at that, a user with actual useful info on fixing this issue. This actually worked, provided you knew you could get a secret settings menu by holding CTRL+ALT when you click settings. Thank you for the assist Atraps003.

If reducing the amount of work you’re asking the CPU to do at once keeps it from crashing (for now), then that confirms the CPU is defective.

You ran the stress test and found under load that the heart can’t handle it and collapses. By reducing the maximum load it doesn’t collapse. Congratulations; you have defective hardware.

If the game was potentially faulty it would be crashing in user space and producing a stack trace in the log file indicating where it crashed. If that happened, you would also receive a prompt by the game saying it crashed and that you should provide the log file and steps to reproduce the issue on the Factorio forums.

[Narishm]

Designing your game to push hardware to the point of failure, having controls hidden in the game to prevent it, not telling people having the issue the controls are there, then blaming their hardware exclusively.

I can't even begin to explain how abusive of a practice that is. Not everyone has a perfect high end system, not everyone can afford to just replace their entire system because you refuse to put the settings in the open menu that would prevent this crash.

I frequently encounter elitism in these circles, especially among some devs but this is one of the worst examples of it I have seen. The audacity to sit on your high horse and tell others they need to replace hundreds of dollars of hardware to play your game, instead of telling them how to turn down the insane requirements you are forcing on their system is astounding.

If this is the attitude of your entire dev team, then I hope your next project is amazing. Because your support of it will drive your entire customer base away.

[Rseding91]

The expectation is hardware is not faulty. Others have had the same issue you’re having:

127732
124573
121033

And each time it comes back the hardware is faulty. For the majority (millions at this point) their hardware works correctly and it never has issues with the map preview.

The hardware exists to be used - that’s its one and only purpose - and so the game uses it. You ask it to perform some action (make a map preview) and so it does - using the hardware it was told to run on.

That is not pushing hardware to the point of failure. The hardware is designed to not fail. If hardware fails when tasked with running software then *it is faulty*.

If you had a calculator that crashed when you asked it to add 1 + 1, you would not say it was pushed to the point of failure: you would say the calculator is faulty. A correctly operating calculator adds 1 + 1 and gives the answer of 2.

A correctly running computer runs the software and doesn’t crash the entire operating system and cause a reboot.

I can respect that not everyone can replace defective hardware: it’s expensive. But if the hardware is defective it’s not on the programs you run to modify their behavior. You’ve implicitly told every piece of software you run “here’s the hardware, X CPUs, Y RAM, Z GPU, use it and run as fast as it lets you”.

For some: their RAM is unstable at higher speeds and so they go into the computer settings (BIOS) and limit how fast it runs. Sometimes people do that for CPUs as well. By doing that, it forces all software “you can only run up to this speed, because I’ve determined any faster does not work on this hardware”.

[Narishm]

I think you have probably just lost a customer forever. I can't bring myself to support a game being created by people like this, or recommend it to others. Enjoy your elitism and your army of yes-men you have to harass people looking for help. I'm done.