Ribbon world train problem

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TehDwArF
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Ribbon world train problem

Post by TehDwArF »

I'm playing a ribbon world and trying to figure out a good train setup. My goal is to get 1k SPM. Since that is a decent amount, I'm condensing the builds as much as possible while maintaining high thruput (without bots).

Constraints:
My world is only 16 tiles high so I must use double headed trains. I would like to have a local stacker for offload stations so new trains arrive quickly. This is because trains could be coming across a very long map and congestion is likely to be quite high. I would also like generic schedules that all trains carrying a specific resource have (IE Coal Loading Stacker -> Coal Loading -> Coal Unloading Stacker -> Coal Unloading). I'm considering using interrupts to dynamically allocate trains to resources if I can wrap my head around it, though that will be at a later time.

Problem:
Trains from my local stacker are electing to route to a different unloading station serviced by it's own dedicated stacker. This route is both blocked by the train(s) in the local stations, and no longer local for quick turnaround.

Question:
Does anyone have ideas on how to resolve this behavior? Should I turn off signals? Have a Circuit wait condition that triggers on an empty station (or rail block the station is part of)?


Test Rig Blueprint: (uses Blueprint Sandboxes Mod for Infinity Chests)


Screenshots:
Example station and dedicated stacker
Stacker&Station.png
Stacker&Station.png (973.39 KiB) Viewed 147 times
Test rig with one loading station and two unloading stations
TestingRig.png
TestingRig.png (118.15 KiB) Viewed 147 times
Problem train in the first stacker routing to the far station with blocked route (and no longer local to station)
ProblemTrain.png
ProblemTrain.png (69.73 KiB) Viewed 147 times
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eugenekay
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Re: Ribbon world train problem

Post by eugenekay »

Not having enough space for a Turnaround definitely makes it harder. :lol: Making the Ribbon just a liiittle wider would solve the issue.

How is your base organized? Eg, does all Mining activity take place towards the East; and all Production occur towards the West? If you eliminate the need to enter the Stacker station from both ends you can simplify the design quite a bit:
12-30-2025, 20-33-12.png
12-30-2025, 20-33-12.png (1.38 MiB) Viewed 127 times


Good Luck!
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mmmPI
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Re: Ribbon world train problem

Post by mmmPI »

I think the main cause of the problem is that you expect the "closest" train to respond to a call to the "demand" or "supply" station, expectation that in practice has no way to be enforced in your setup because "many" trains can answer the call, even if they are not trains in the immediate nearby stacker but instead trains from another stacker.

To mitigate this problem you can add path for those trains to be able to reach another station than their designated one like this :



I'm not sure it's very pretty, it deals with the symptoms not the cause, it would prevent trains from getting stuck with minimal layout modifications, but for a more practical solution a larger redesign of the station is required so that trains can't reach "supply" nor "demand" from another stacker than their dedicated one, for which i think it would be required to abandon the idea of using stackers with train station on each end as if trains could come from both side, and instead have 2 sets of stackers and 2 "main" station, one for each side where trains could come from, abit like the one proposed by eugenekay, with a mirror version next to it for trains from/to the other side.
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TehDwArF
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Re: Ribbon world train problem

Post by TehDwArF »

eugenekay wrote: Wed Dec 31, 2025 1:36 am Not having enough space for a Turnaround definitely makes it harder. :lol: Making the Ribbon just a liiittle wider would solve the issue.

How is your base organized? Eg, does all Mining activity take place towards the East; and all Production occur towards the West? If you eliminate the need to enter the Stacker station from both ends you can simplify the design quite a bit:
I was actually playing on a 12 tile high map but restarted because finding a Huge Fulgora Ruin (the one needed for the tech tree progression, while technically possible, was seeming like it may not exist. Ran East for an hour and a half before giving up.

As far as organization. I was planning on having outposts to both the east and west to try to cut down train congestion and have easier access to ores. A furnace stack along with oil processing was also planned to be on the outskirts on both sides. I can't really gauentee which direction trains will come from unless I segregate the left and right sides (that is an idea though).

mmmPI wrote: Wed Dec 31, 2025 2:04 am I think the main cause of the problem is that you expect the "closest" train to respond to a call to the "demand" or "supply" station, expectation that in practice has no way to be enforced in your setup because "many" trains can answer the call, even if they are not trains in the immediate nearby stacker but instead trains from another stacker.

To mitigate this problem you can add path for those trains to be able to reach another station than their designated one like this :

I'm not sure it's very pretty, it deals with the symptoms not the cause, it would prevent trains from getting stuck with minimal layout modifications, but for a more practical solution a larger redesign of the station is required so that trains can't reach "supply" nor "demand" from another stacker than their dedicated one, for which i think it would be required to abandon the idea of using stackers with train station on each end as if trains could come from both side, and instead have 2 sets of stackers and 2 "main" station, one for each side where trains could come from, abit like the one proposed by eugenekay, with a mirror version next to it for trains from/to the other side.
I was hoping a blocked path would be seen as invalid by the trains. After some thought it makes sense it wouldn't or a normal rail network would have blocking paths all the time. I couldn't think of a way to restrict access to the stations to only the stacker (without back and forth shenanagins) since they can just exit the stacker through any existing station (which needs to be able to reach the smelter whever it is).

I like your idea of a station on each side with a one-sided stacker. I'll need to see if I can get enough belt lanes by it with my current designs (i'm also disallowing belt weaving since it feels "cheap"). I could also maybe try generic stacker stations that just spread trains throuout the base.

I may also be able to do a


Ideally I'd like to find a way to stop the train from selecting a far station while still having universal access. I may need to play with it and see how they behave if I stratigacally block train signals using circuits. I suspect the trains wont care though since that's nearly identical to having a train in the way.
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eugenekay
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Re: Ribbon world train problem

Post by eugenekay »

TehDwArF wrote: Wed Dec 31, 2025 7:38 amI may need to play with it and see how they behave if I stratigacally block train signals using circuits. I suspect the trains wont care though since that's nearly identical to having a train in the way.
The train path algorithm incurs a penalty of 1000 for Signals set to Red by the circuit network.
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