Recipe For Spoilage/Nutrients From Wood

[DrakeyC]

TL;DR

Add a new recipe to convert Wood into either Spoilage or Nutrients.

What?

I would add this recipe to unlock with Tree Seeding. I say either Spoilage or Nutrients, because the same goal would be accomplished either way, but Nutrients would be more rewarding for the player to utilize this while Spoilage would be simpler, imho.

Why?

This comes around to the common critiques of Gleba, and one in particular I think can be fixed with this minor tweak without significantly overhauling the balance of the game. Currently, the Biochamber has limited utility outside of Gleba, at least compared to the Foundry and the Electromagnetic Plant, and a major reason is that it requires Nutrients. The Foundry and the Plant can be taken to any planet and plopped down to begin working without any additional steps or resources. But not the Biochamber, it needs Nutrients to function and those can only be acquired on two planets, Gleba and Nauvis.

However, there is no production chain of Nutrients on Nauvis innately, you have to get them from either Biter Eggs or Fish, and both require player input or outside resources of some capacity, and undermine what I feel is a core theme of Gleba's researches - sustainability. Any usage of the Biochamber outside of Gleba is not sustainable for the long-term without player input or additional infrastructure to ship in Nutrients (or something to produce them like Bioflux) from Gleba.

The option to convert Wood to Spoilage/Nutrients folds into things perfectly. First, most trees on Gleba yield Spoilage of some sort anyway, so this is just an extension of that. Besides, obviously Wood should rot and decay like any other resource, but adding a spoilage timer to it would be an awful idea, thus it should be a recipe. With the ability to produce Nutrients from Wood, the Biochamber's viability on Nauvis skyrockets. With Agricultural Towers to automate seeding and harvesting of Trees, a steady supply of Nutrients could be maintained to fuel the player's Biochambers, and they could be integrated into the factory much more organically (no pun intended).

On the flip side, sustainable Nutrient production on Nauvis is not particularly game-breaking, because the Biochamber's non-oil recipes all require something from Gleba. The exception is Fish Breeding, so this would make it easier to amass Fish, but that's something extremely niche use.

[angramania]

there is no production chain of Nutrients on Nauvis innately, you either recycle Biter Eggs or Fish, and both require player input and undermine what I feel is a core theme of Gleba's researches - sustainability

Recycle biter egg? You definitely should learn recipes before making suggestions. Nutrients are produced from eggs in AM or Biochamber and chain bioflux -> egg -> nutrient is so profitable that some players transport eggs back to Gleba to fuel biochambers there.

Biochamber outside of Gleba is not sustainable for the long-term without player input or additional infrastructure to ship in Nutrients (or something to produce them like Bioflux) from Gleba.

You need to setup constant production of biter eggs anyway for prometheus science, so why bother with alternative recipes.

[DrakeyC]

there is no production chain of Nutrients on Nauvis innately, you either recycle Biter Eggs or Fish, and both require player input and undermine what I feel is a core theme of Gleba's researches - sustainability

Recycle biter egg? You definitely should learn recipes before making suggestions.

I misspoke, you get the point regardless. Biter Eggs to Nutrients is not sustainable on Nauvis, you need to get Bioflux from Gleba.

You need to setup constant production of biter eggs anyway for prometheus science, so why bother with alternative recipes.

Because that is the extreme end-game, this would be able to be usable far earlier.

[angramania]

Because that is the extreme end-game, this would be able to be usable far earlier.

You can’t access it before handling Gleba. At the same time, you also need to set up a production chain for biolabs and Production Modules 3, both of which require biter eggs. Knowing that eggs are necessary for Prometheus science only gives the player more incentive not to dismantle this chain. And if the chain already exists, why not use it? Just add a logistic request for bioflux to the ship that transports agricultural science, and that’s all you need. Instead, you’re suggesting developing a separate science path and building additional infrastructure.

In vanilla, there are no issues with using a biochamber on Nauvis. However, it would be actually more beneficial to use biochamber on Vulcanus, where oil cracking is the main limiting factor. And your suggestion doesn’t address that.

[eugenekay]

This is a popular Mod idea:

• Yummy Wood
• Tree Nutrients
• Simple Wood Dissolution
• Viable Biolabs on Nauvis
• Nauvis Farming

Using this recipe does indeed short-circuit the Interplanetary Logistics of shipping & distributing Bioflux... I don't like it, but there are many ways to play the game.

Good Luck!

[DrakeyC]

Because that is the extreme end-game, this would be able to be usable far earlier.

You can’t access it before handling Gleba.

You can't access Biochambers before handling Gleba, either.

At the same time, you also need to set up a production chain for biolabs and Production Modules 3, both of which require biter eggs. Knowing that eggs are necessary for Prometheus science only gives the player more incentive not to dismantle this chain. And if the chain already exists, why not use it?

That is highly flawed logic. By that thinking, players have to set up a production chain to fuel smelters with coal and ore, so alternative production methods (Foundries, Electric Furnaces) are unnecessary and should be removed so players don't feel they have to dismantle their chain.

Just add a logistic request for bioflux to the ship that transports agricultural science, and that’s all you need. Instead, you’re suggesting developing a separate science path and building additional infrastructure.

No, I suggested integrating Wood to Spoilage/Nutrients into the Tree Seeding research, which is available right off Gleba. As for building additional infrastructure, that's going to be necessary to use Biochambers over Chemical Plants no matter what you do, Nutrients and Spoilage need transport one way or the other, as does Bioflux to Nutrients. Shipping in Bioflux from Gleba is far more complex than just setting down a tree farm on Nauvis (not actually complex, but relatively speaking).

In vanilla, there are no issues with using a biochamber on Nauvis. However, it would be actually more beneficial to use biochamber on Vulcanus, where oil cracking is the main limiting factor. And your suggestion doesn’t address that.

And my suggestion was not intended to address it, either. [Moderated by Koub : keep it a fight of ideas, not a fight of people]

[angramania]

That is highly flawed logic. By that thinking, players have to set up a production chain to fuel smelters with coal and ore, so alternative production methods (Foundries, Electric Furnaces) are unnecessary and should be removed so players don't feel they have to dismantle their chain.

But that is not my logic.
Electric Furnaces are just more convenient for new smelters. Usually in non-deathworld games there is no reason to rebuild old smelters. Also in SA some players skip EF completely.
Foundries give so overwhelming production boost, that, with exception of speedruns, worth total rebuilding of base.
And what are reasons to follow suggested tree path?

Shipping in Bioflux from Gleba is far more complex than just setting down a tree farm on Nauvis

You still miss key point. There is no choice between importing bioflux and setting down tree farm. Player will always import bioflux and produce eggs. Period. So choice is between just use existing eggs or setup tree farm.

[Moderated by Koub : keep it a fight of ideas, not a fight of people]

[DrakeyC]

And what are reasons to follow suggested tree path?

I've already given them; earlier unlock, simpler to set up, no need for interplanetary supply lines, self-contained on Nauvis, can easily be integrated into existing tech tree.

You still miss key point. There is no choice between importing bioflux and setting down tree farm. Player will always import bioflux and produce eggs. Period. So choice is between just use existing eggs or setup tree farm.

Which is more complex and later in the game.

[Moderated by Koub : keep it a fight of ideas, not a fight of people]

[angramania]

I've already given them; earlier unlock, simpler to set up, no need for interplanetary supply lines, self-contained on Nauvis, can easily be integrated into existing tech tree.

earlier unlock - earlier than what? The recipes "nutrients from spoilage" and "nutrients from bioflux" work on Nauvis and are unlocked before "tree seeding". Аnd "nutrients from biter egg" is on the same research level and playthrough stage.

simpler to set up - true... in sandbox, but not in an actual playthrough.

no need for interplanetary supply lines, self-contained on Nauvis - true, but players usually have that line set up well before they even get to oil cracking with biochambers, so it makes no real difference.

can easily be integrated into existing tech tree - isn’t a valid reason for choosing one option over another

Which is more complex and later in the game.

Captivity and tree seeding are on the same research level. But captivity is must have for any adequate player, tree seeding is not

[Moderated by Koub : keep it a fight of ideas, not a fight of people]