Version 2.0.45

[mmmPI]

It was just to clarify the source of your information when you said about the need to ignore worms, i wasn't sure if it was new, or just based on no information, just something you made up.

Since you already did something similar on this thread about the rules of speedrunning, and how they are verified, and showed the inability to clarify in your writings between your speculation and what is connected with reality by facts, i thought it was worth asking if you were sure about it otherwise it would be a wrong answer received by the person who asked, who i'm sure could also have made up its own answer too, but was more likely asking to have a confirmation from someone that wouldn't be making up the answer.

I thought it would be obvious by now that your actions result in spreading wrong answers and i was wondering if you were aware of that, and quite possibly willing to let you know so that your behavior that leads to spreading those erroneous speculation could be act upon.

I realize now it may not have been obvious to you because your advices and regular dismissal for steam forums missing their targets.

[Chindraba]

It was just to clarify the source of your information when you said about the need to ignore worms, i wasn't sure if it was new, or just based on no information, just something you made up.

Since you already did something similar on this thread about the rules of speedrunning, and how they are verified, and showed the inability to clarify in your writings between your speculation and what is connected with reality by facts, i thought it was worth asking if you were sure about it otherwise it would be a wrong answer received by the person who asked, who i'm sure could also have made up its own answer too, but was more likely asking to have a confirmation from someone that wouldn't be making up the answer.

I thought it would be obvious by now that your actions result in spreading wrong answers and i was wondering if you were aware of that, and quite possibly willing to let you know so that your behavior that leads to spreading those erroneous speculation could be act upon.

I realize now it may not have been obvious to you because your advices and regular dismissal for steam forums missing their targets.

Peace be unto you and yours.

[mmmPI]

Peace be unto you and yours.

What does that mean ? you can send private message if you are not adressing the current thread.

[Stargateur]

New achievents sound fun. I / we speedrunners are happy to help if you would appreciate help with balancing them, and deciding what is fun. I am certain we can benefit from each others knowledge

Feel like I'm reading linkedin.

[flamefield]

I think something worth thinking about also is how mods are handled. With mods enabled, you can still get achievements in the game, but they won't count for steam achievements. I don't really ever see any controversy around that, so I'm thinking maybe changing world settings could be handled similarly to playing with mods? Just food for thought.

In fact, achievements on Steam can be obtained by taking shortcuts through mods. I remember that shortly after the 2.0 update, I noticed that the sandbox mode in the game had disappeared, but I wasn't very good at using a map editor. When I was about to test something, I enabled a mod that modified the opening item for testing. When I closed the mod and was about to read the original game save, I instinctively loaded the mod enabled save. Then, Steam popped up and filled the mecha's achievements with a legendary device. The reason was that the mecha in the mod save was wearing a legendary mecha all over. After closing the mod, this non mod enabled save was treated as the original save by the achievement system. Should this bug be fixed

[BrainlessTeddy]

I kinda understand the speedrunning community. In that this "Bugfix" is really disruptive and comes at a weird time...

On the other hand I also understand making achievements harder to get... Although I don't care about achievements either in-game or on Steam (even less about global achievements), so you can give out achievements on peaceful mode for all i care.

[Hares]

RIP Railworld.
RIP speedruns.

[bullipatty]

pls. less "smart" shit, more checkboxes.

[BlueTemplar]

A bit late, but this was bothering me.

[...]
Also i think it's not healthy to play 15 hours in a row, a bit like extreme sport were it's not a good advise to tell people to train to do back flip on rooftop until they can make it despite it being some people's job.
[...]

Speaking also of the choice of not judging of how others play and of adaptability :

I always found it weird that the Factorio speedrunning communities using speedrun.com never created there any segmented speedrun category, despite of how long even Factorio runs are !

To the point that nobody mentioned them here in 12 pages of discussion, and it was even talked about in a way that some readers might think that segmented speedruns are somehow "invalid" !

(Also, nobody seems to have bothered yet uploading Factorio speedruns to the Speed Demos Archive ?!? Please feel free to share other speedrun uploads websites I might have missed, though I guess the Tool-Assisted Speedruns might be offtopic...)

[Hares]

Speaking also of the choice of not judging of how others play and of adaptability :

I always found it weird that the Factorio speedrunning communities using speedrun.com never created there any segmented speedrun category, despite of how long even Factorio runs are!

Technically, some SA runs are segmented as they allow pausing the timer unless you competing for the WR.

[BlueTemplar]

If they don't allow retries of segments, then it's not segmented, not to mention the last caveat would be a pretty big deal for those competing at the top.

[mmmPI]

A bit late, but this was bothering me.

[...]
Also i think it's not healthy to play 15 hours in a row, a bit like extreme sport were it's not a good advise to tell people to train to do back flip on rooftop until they can make it despite it being some people's job.
[...]

Speaking also of the choice of not judging of how others play and of adaptability :

I always found it weird that the Factorio speedrunning communities using speedrun.com never created there any segmented speedrun category, despite of how long even Factorio runs are !

To the point that nobody mentioned them here in 12 pages of discussion, and it was even talked about in a way that some readers might think that segmented speedruns are somehow "invalid" !

(Also, nobody seems to have bothered yet uploading Factorio speedruns to the Speed Demos Archive ?!? Please feel free to share other speedrun uploads websites I might have missed, though I guess the Tool-Assisted Speedruns might be offtopic...)

There may be some misunderstanding, i didn't judge what other people do, i only explain the reason why i do my things, i don't think it's healthy to play 15 hours in a row and would not personnaly recommend this to anyone, when it happens to me it feels like i've let time slipped, if someone ELSE has the balance in their life to find time to do ONE THING for 15 hours in a row, and on a regular basis , so as to get skilled into speedrunning, that's good for them. I still don't think it's healthy for me to attempt the same thing. I don't believe it's a healthy thing in general either. It's not a judgment on how other players plays. There's plenty of unhealthy things like sugar or chocolate that are also very enjoyable, or morally accepted. It's an opinion not a judgment. My opinion is that it's not healthy. And as such it drives how i feel the game could communicate about it. If the game makes you feel bad because you're not playing 15 hours in a row , the nature of this is creating addiction , or unfair player retention. It is different than players deciding on their own how to enjoy their life.

You can try to contact someone from the speedrun.com /factorio admin, to tell them that you think segmented run would be a good idea, but why tell me ?

[BlueTemplar]

Whoops, there's a misunderstanding here :

I quoted you because I also thought that it's not very healthy behaviour.

The "judging" part, however, was about the lack of a mention of the possibility of segmented speedruns.

And it is a kind of judging, but not directed towards specific individuals, but more towards a 'group' : 'groups' have a bigger responsibility because of effects like normalization and social pressure.

[DanGio]

How misunderstood is the Factorio speedrun community I don't know if this is the case for many games, because I'm not involved in any other community.

The categories you see on speedrun.com aren’t decided in advance by a groupe of priviliged people, like a Factorio Speedrun Police . You can run whatever you want and if you show them on Discord your special run based on your personal ruleset, you'll receive a warm welcome. Categories are created afterwards, based on runs that players actually do. The site just lists an existing practice. If categories were solely created on ideas of what could be done, they would remain empty and be deleted eventually.

If segmented runs are done by a reasonable number of people, with a consistent ruleset, they’ll eventually make it onto speedrun.com — probably after some discussion to reach an agreement. That said, I think anyone doing segmented runs will run into some practical issues… but hey, you’d have to try it to find out :p

(ps : I'm not part of Factorio Speedrun mods, this is just what I THINK would happen (and what I've seen happening in the past) and doesn't engage anyone but me )

[DanGio]

I hope moderators will forgive me for Showing my creations in this release post but I think it illustrates my previous post. I did a Reach Fulgora run in february. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgUI4fMTPg

If anyone's interested to beat me, I think it's doable with very few practice, because I only made 2 attempts. For now, I'm the only one running this and so I am the champion of this category The goal could be "Reach Fulgora, Vulcanus or Gleba". If you beat me, let me know

[mmmPI]

And it is a kind of judging, but not directed towards specific individuals, but more towards a 'group' : 'groups' have a bigger responsibility because of effects like normalization and social pressure.

No it's not, if you eat chocolate or sugar it's fine, there's no judgment, now when you sell chocolate or sugar, you don't write "eat all you can everyday " on them, you write "eating too much of those isn't healthy", because that's the case. It's factual, not a judgment toward any person nor group. If you say alcohol consumption can damage your life it doesn't mean you are also being judmental on alcoholics, if you say "playing 15 hours of factorio everyday is not healthy imo" it doesn't mean you are judging the people doing it. If you have a different opinion, please explain why you think it is healthy. Another example maybe that makes you understand more : when you watch combat sport and you cheers for the fighters but you also know what they do is putting their life at risk are you judging them at all ? and if so positively or negatively ?

The categories you see on speedrun.com aren’t decided in advance by a groupe of priviliged people, like a Factorio Speedrun Police

I think you are correct, but there are also some dedicated players that spend time trying to organize a consistent leaderboaord, write clear ruleset and make sure people haven't cheated their run, so there is kind of factorio speedrun police x) When i mentionned contacting an admin at speedrun.com/factorio, i guessed that eventually there is an account with credentials for the person(s) that can actually modify the public page, to make the "new" categories appears.

I hope moderators will forgive me for Showing my creations in this release post but I think it illustrates my previous post. I did a Reach Fulgora run in february. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scgUI4fMTPg

If anyone's interested to beat me, I think it's doable with very few practice, because I only made 2 attempts. For now, I'm the only one running this and so I am the champion of this category The goal could be "Reach Fulgora, Vulcanus or Gleba". If you beat me, let me know

Well 4 hours is a bit long for a single run, not to criticize your performance that i probably couldn't reproduce without lots of change in my habits , i've only watched a few segments, but i hope you took a break at least between the 2 attempts x)

[DanGio]

I think you are correct, but there are also some dedicated players that spend time trying to organize a consistent leaderboaord, write clear ruleset and make sure people haven't cheated their run, so there is kind of factorio speedrun police x) When i mentionned contacting an admin at speedrun.com/factorio, i guessed that eventually there is an account with credentials for the person(s) that can actually modify the public page, to make the "new" categories appears.

Yes, and they are... the players who do speedruns. So that's more relevant to compare them to administrators of a self-governed community

What I don't get is why, even though the speedrunning community works like any other — with admins, discussions, votes, and so on — their choices and practices get criticized so often. And that’s all the more surprising when it comes from players who have no intention of doing any speedruns anyway.

[mmmPI]

Yes, and they are... the players who do speedruns. So that's more relevant to compare them to administrators of a self-governed community

I'm fine with that

What I don't get is why, even though the speedrunning community works like any other — with admins, discussions, votes, and so on — their choices and practices get criticized so often. And that’s all the more surprising when it comes from players who have no intention of doing any speedruns anyway.

I don't know if i can speak for all the players that have no intention to do speedruns and critics things seemingly for the sake of it, i do not feel like that's what i'm doing and am quite puzzled by the some critics too. I felt like i gave my opinion as someone who occasionnaly watches speedruns, of factorio and of different game, learned from them, i even discovered this game thanks to speedruns ! Maybe that's selfish of me but i prefer those person don't sacrifice their health for my entertainment ( they are free to do what they please though). It's just an opinion from a random viewer, i know some speedrunners are asking for feedback sometimes and wants to know what their viewer like, and i like watching skills, not no-lifers , i am quite the no-life myself and thus believe have more understanding than judgment for the others like me x). I can understand that it can be perceived as a critic to say such things, but in case i hope it's also constructive criticsm.

Now regarding the achievements, in line with that mentality, i would prefer the game to not glorify what could be seen as burn-out inducing behavior in their wording. I'm curious to see what will be the new achievements. I have negative anticipation for something like "play 12 hours in a row" , i think it would constitute a reward for burn-out inducing behavior, and it's nowhere like speedrunning.

And i think the discussion on "long hours of playing in a row" came from misunderstanding by some players between the achievements and the speedrunning category from one side. And from what i felt is a legitimate concern by speedrunners on the other side. The achievements in game can be segmented, no problem and no fear from me that it changes. The speedrunning category like " all the achievement in one sitting" are something different. And those are objectively popular amongst speedrunners and viewers ( not me who prefer shorter runs as mentionned but who cares). I undertand the concern that changing some achievements have an impact on such communities and how they enjoy the game, i feel it's a legitimate concern, because otherwise achievements are almost meaningless to me, so if they are changed, that sound good to me that they are changed FOR the persons who care about them that uses them to organize their community. But since they are also used to "guide new players" , i felt the concerns expressed earlier are also to take into account.

Not sure you were refering to my critics in particular but i took the opportunity to clarify anyway