Landmines in the offense

[NOiZE]

Not sure if this is intended game play:
https://youtu.be/aTNUpQNm3Yw?t=538

Title: Balance Landmines: Player Damage, 30% Less Nest Damage, No Enemy Targeting

Type: Feature Request

Factorio Version: 2.0 (also applicable to earlier versions)

Short Description:
Make landmine explosions damage players, reduce biter/spitter nest damage by 30%, and stop biters/spitters from targeting landmines. This curbs cheesy nest-clearing spam and boosts combat strategy.

Description:
Landmines make clearing biter/spitter nests too easy:
1. Players are immune to landmine explosions, unlike nests and biters.
2. Nests take heavy damage (~1000 per mine), so 4-5 wipe out a ~4000-health nest.
3. Biters/spitters target landmines during placement, triggering explosions for free, and keeping the player free from biter attacks.

This feels cheesy, especially in speedruns where landmine spam overshadows other tactics. I suggest:
1. Player Damage: Landmines should damage players, adding risk.
2. 30% Less Nest Damage: Nests take 30% less damage from landmine explosions, needing more mines or mixed tactics. Other explosives keep full damage.
3. No Enemy Targeting: Biters/spitters shouldn’t target landmines, focusing on players instead.

Reasoning:

• Balance: Landmine spam trivializes nests, worsened by biters targeting mines. Player damage and nest resistance force smarter play; no targeting keeps enemies aggressive.
• Speedruns: Landmines dominate speedrun nest clearing. These changes add skill—avoiding self-damage and luring enemies—making combat more varied.
• Immersion: Player immunity and enemies attacking mines feel off. Explosions should be risky, and biters should chase players, not traps.
• Minimal Impact: Landmines stay strong against biters, other explosives are unchanged, and non-combat gameplay is unaffected.

Implementation Suggestion:

• Make landmine explosions damage all entities, including players.
• Give nests 30% resistance to landmine explosion damage, leaving other explosives unaffected.
• Prevent biters/spitters from targeting landmines, ensuring they attack players or structures.
• Ensure landmines trigger normally in 2.0.

Example Scenario:

• Current: 4-5 landmines destroy a nest; biters target mines and die, with no player risk.
• Proposed: Landmines deal ~700 damage to nests, needing 6-7. Biters chase the player, who risks heavy damage if caught in a blast.

Optional Considerations:

• Lower landmine damage slightly if player risk is too high.
• Add a warning sound for triggered landmines near players.

Non-Goals:

• Weakening landmines against biters.
• Changing other explosives.
• Adding complex mechanics.

Discussion:
Is landmine spam too strong for nests? Does 30% nest resistance feel right, or should it be tweaked? Should biters ever target landmines? Feedback from speedrunners and players welcome!

[eugenekay]

If you’re brave enough to walk right up to the Biters, throw a landmine at their feet, and can still run away without being eaten, then I think you deserve that one.

The linked gameplay video seemed reasonable enough - landmines go Boom, enemies disappear. Much like Shotguns, I think Landmines should be used more in-game; not less!

[NOiZE]

Well that is indeed the experience you would expect. But instead the biters focus their attention on eating the landmines instead of you. And although there are explosions all around you, none of them actually impact you. because you are immune to landmine explosions.

Seriously just drop the landmines in front of you, and you are good. you only have to watch out a bit for the spit.

[robot256]

Note that the instant-explosion behavior of landmines is new and might require tweaking. See viewtopic.php?t=121065

[NOiZE]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LandmineExplosionsDoHurt

So here is my first try to balance it. now the AeO affects the player as well... so be careful

[freeafrica]

+1 for this topic, landmines are way too overpowered, compared to how easy of a tech it is... also resource cost is super low.

Suggestion from OP makes also sense from biter role-perspective. Why would it attack a landmine? It does not create pollution, nor is it a direct threat, it's a stationary item, player should be prioritized to attack.

If grenades do friendly fire, why not mines? I know their not player-triggered, still, maybe add a delay + sound effect of arming? That way a player can react... i don't know, but they really feel broken for me.

[120IQMove]

Landmines shoudn't damage player. It designed to be outside walls and blowing up biters. If they blow up player, then i wouldn't make sense placing them around walls, because it would blow up walls and would be trouble when dealing with business around the walls. Even so, if devs add this feature trolling is very much expected. I would put them in front of some gates so anyone passing through with car is dead.

Biters engaging landmines is makes sense, since they capable attacking rocks and trees. They're dumb. It's not a bug, it's lore accurate biters

[NOiZE]

Landmines shoudn't damage player. It designed to be outside walls and blowing up biters. If they blow up player, then i wouldn't make sense placing them around walls, because it would blow up walls and would be trouble when dealing with business around the walls. Even so, if devs add this feature trolling is very much expected. I would put them in front of some gates so anyone passing through with car is dead.

Biters engaging landmines is makes sense, since they capable attacking rocks and trees. They're dumb. It's not a bug, it's lore accurate biters

It was not that clearly written in the main post. But what was meant that players indeed shouldn't trigger landmines. But they should be susceptible to the AoE damage when a nearby biter triggers the mine.

[120IQMove]

Landmines shoudn't damage player. It designed to be outside walls and blowing up biters. If they blow up player, then i wouldn't make sense placing them around walls, because it would blow up walls and would be trouble when dealing with business around the walls. Even so, if devs add this feature trolling is very much expected. I would put them in front of some gates so anyone passing through with car is dead.

Biters engaging landmines is makes sense, since they capable attacking rocks and trees. They're dumb. It's not a bug, it's lore accurate biters

It was not that clearly written in the main post. But what was meant that players indeed shouldn't trigger landmines. But they should be susceptible to the AoE damage when a nearby biter triggers the mine.

Nerfing damage wouldn't be right, in that case landmines will lose the competition to other weapons. I think option when landmines damaging everything sounds justified. Also making recipe more expensive and/or longer craft would also work here.

[Stargateur]

If you’re brave enough to walk right up to the Biters, throw a landmine at their feet, and can still run away without being eaten, then I think you deserve that one.

but how it is brave when this is very effective

I feel mines should do less damage to buried entity but they should definitively do aoe damage to all things around, I actually bluffed they do not.

[coffee-factorio]

Seemed like a fun idea so I shot some video playtesting it.

The speed aspect seems way, way overblown till you realize you can take out big worms, and I survived something I really ought to not have because of it.

As for it being brave, I laughed a lot filming this because I have a car and I can set these things down like assembly line belts. Damage levels are in the video but lets just say it's based in reality. Edit: On second thought - I believe they are level 2 physical and speed and at most level 1 for explosive. At the end of my videya I rammed a nest, planted a bunch of mines and then walked away from a big worm without consequence.

As for opinions - think that DR on biter nests should go up or be attached to evolution like health is. Not sure what to make of worms being so easy to kill, or if this is an easy thing to balance because I think you should see lines of 2-4 of landmines on the ground in its intended role.

You also have to imagine me driving up with a tank; I just use the car in my test and a small amount of upgrades. Definitely need to have these do damage; if not to the player than to vehicles to make a skill issue.

[mmmPI]

You also have to imagine me driving up with a tank

It says the video require user to login due to inappropriate langage, so i imagined you saying bad words while driving but i couldn't see the video

[coffee-factorio]

You also have to imagine me driving up with a tank

It says the video require user to login due to inappropriate langage

Functioning as intended.

I seem to recall you favor a car? Would the strategy work?

[NOiZE]

Not sure where the car and tanks are coming from, they are totally not needed.

Just go on foot with landmines, you own every biter base, including all the behemoth biters, no prob, see video in the top post. place the land mines in front of yourself in a circular motion. The biters will focus on the landmines, and get killed by doing so, including all the biter spawners and worms. EZ.

[NOiZE]

anyway, i made a mod to balance it:

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LandmineExplosionsDoHurt

[coffee-factorio]

Not sure where the car and tanks are coming from, they are totally not needed.

Just go on foot with landmines, you own every biter base, including all the behemoth biters, no prob, see video in the top post. place the land mines in front of yourself in a circular motion. The biters will focus on the landmines, and get killed by doing so, including all the biter spawners and worms. EZ.

The thing is that the car and the tank both let you make something that's kind of sketchy to begin with be even more silly.
Because you can snap drag the mines in a line, so you just make like Mad Max in a circle 'round the biters entire base. And drive off.

While doing this, I took some damage and decided to pull a silly. I rammed a car into a nest of biters, drew a line of landmines under me and into a big worm and nest. And I made it out with 50% hp; without wearing body armor. I died shortly after, so the biters could have something, you know. For their feelings.

I think your mod is justified.

[mmmPI]

Not sure where the car and tanks are coming from, they are totally not needed.

Just go on foot with landmines, you own every biter base, including all the behemoth biters, no prob, see video in the top post. place the land mines in front of yourself in a circular motion. The biters will focus on the landmines, and get killed by doing so, including all the biter spawners and worms. EZ.

It's probably a better demonstration video , i think the player is quite skilled, and/or editing a little the video when things could go wrong, you can see the HP bar drops quite low, which at this stage of the game where you have plenty shield means death was very close, i don't think it will be "EZ" for everyone to replicate, it require fast inputs unlike other parts of the game, so that makes it a niche use already, and i feel like it's "deserved reward" somehow similar to some expressed earlier, for the vanilla game, it's there as last resort for me, i wouldn't invest the energy into doing it every game, but if i'm distracted on a planet and facing too much of a problem with more automated ways, i can still "try landmines in the offense", it's not my first choice by far.

anyway, i made a mod to balance it:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LandmineExplosionsDoHurt

That's the best ! Sounds like it would work well with other mods to throw landmines

[NOiZE]

Not sure where the car and tanks are coming from, they are totally not needed.

Just go on foot with landmines, you own every biter base, including all the behemoth biters, no prob, see video in the top post. place the land mines in front of yourself in a circular motion. The biters will focus on the landmines, and get killed by doing so, including all the biter spawners and worms. EZ.

It's probably a better demonstration video , i think the player is quite skilled, and/or editing a little the video when things could go wrong, you can see the HP bar drops quite low, which at this stage of the game where you have plenty shield means death was very close, i don't think it will be "EZ" for everyone to replicate, it require fast inputs unlike other parts of the game, so that makes it a niche use already, and i feel like it's "deserved reward" somehow similar to some expressed earlier, for the vanilla game, it's there as last resort for me, i wouldn't invest the energy into doing it every game, but if i'm distracted on a planet and facing too much of a problem with more automated ways, i can still "try landmines in the offense", it's not my first choice by far.

anyway, i made a mod to balance it:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/LandmineExplosionsDoHurt

That's the best ! Sounds like it would work well with other mods to throw landmines

You should try it, it's really EZ. after a few tries you will have the hang of it, just make sure to place the land mines in front of your character, and keep placing them till everything is dead. you wont be targeted at all. Because the biters will target those land mines. (of course: dont step on spit. but thats also true for all other approaches)

[mmmPI]

You should try it, it's really EZ. after a few tries you will have the hang of it, just make sure to place the land mines in front of your character, and keep placing them till everything is dead. you wont be targeted at all. Because the biters will target those land mines. (of course: dont step on spit. but thats also true for all other approaches)

lul bro it's EZ 4 me but i don't play alone

[coffee-factorio]

You should try it, it's really EZ. after a few tries you will have the hang of it, just make sure to place the land mines in front of your character, and keep placing them till everything is dead. you wont be targeted at all. Because the biters will target those land mines. (of course: dont step on spit. but thats also true for all other approaches)

I looked over your mod description and had some thoughts.

But I ended up getting hung up on another project. I'm at a good point to pause and think about this though.

Damage to the player is the best mitigation. And even if the alternative solution I post below is considered, landmines are notoriously unsafe anyways. It also lets me use them as a cheap version of grenades for destroying trees... although, that's more for my entertainment. A robot network is better for engineering and you get it quickly after you can unlock landmines.

With chain detonation combined with a vehicle, tanks have 15/70% explosive DR and I can roll in with a discharge defense. If I use these things together, I can use that to make a demolition line after I kill worms and expedite biter removal.

In theory, I can take the red+green science car and do the same thing with a drive-by. Every now and then a skill issue might kill me, or force me to level a base on foot. But the mass of bombs I put up doing it will probably make it worthwhile to try. What's more problematic is that the area denial role is kind of the intended purpose, fiddling with perfect shapes isn't how these things work. It suggests a satchel charge mod if there isn't one. It's a fundamentally entertaining idea !

Alternative ideas:
1)
I thought about if there might be some kind of delay, like you wait 20 seconds for the landmine to go explosive. That would be like in FPS games where you launch a 40mm grenade and it doesn't arm till it won't kill you (and that's pretty real). The thing is that this is done at scale by bots, and that's a bit different than 64-128 players running around at once; you see lag in that land too but I don't know the weight of those events on a server or game.

In the API there's actually a timeout field. Presumably this is what changes the art on a mine from armed to not. The issue is that idk how you access that at runtime or if it disarms the mine. It might be able to put a flag on the mine when that timeout has elapsed, but that means adding more data to the game so that's "non-trivial". Worth testing (and in detail, if anything useful exists it may or may not be documented), might not contribute to solving the issue. It takes 2 seconds for the mine to "arm" by default. You might have to pull a hack right now by checking what an entity has as art at runtime, rather than a flag

But again, the issue is "Okay, while the game is running how do I check if the landmine is armed or not and react?" I hate what maybe's like that do to a conversation.

2)

This led me to another idea: There's an activation trigger. What you could do is check to see if the landmine has full health. If it does -> Boom.

If it doesn't then it was triggered while an enemy attacking it or a mistake. And you can set the probability of it going off from 0 to 1, depending on how fair you think you should be to the enemy (and how much you want to abuse your free time - I'd just set it to never deal damage). You could also say "if I see some health" v. "if I see no health" to make it a runtime check with existing information. There's also an on death trigger in the API where such a check might have to be done if you try and implement this.

I don't think this would reliably stop all detonations (biters can still run over mines and might go after a player first) but it might be worth seeing if it mitigates it - if a worm hits a minefield with AOE it effectively would render several mines useless.