How to upcycle?

[mmmPI]

That "input cost" could mean all sorts of things. Efficiency could be maximum number of quality units per time, per amount of input material, per space used, per amount of time building the system, etc. I personally don't care about raw materials. All raw materials are unlimited. Space is also unlimited. Time, I don't care about too much, as long as I can get enough as I need it. To me "input cost" means the amount of time I have to spend messing with systems to give me the Legendary items I want.

That's exactly what i mean ! When you play a game you can design a system with the objective : " i take an hour to make it, but then in 10 minutes i have my armor", or you can design a system with the objective : " i take 10 minutes to make it, and in an hour i have my armor".

If you are preparing blueprint for future game in late game, you will most likely spend an hour to design something that when reused is very fast, even though it is a big setup that cost a lot of ressources.

But if you are playing a tough hard mode game, and you have also defense to keep maintaining , or you want to get all the achievements, maybe you prefer spending just 10 minutes to make it, a slow and steady setup, that takes minimum time to build, so you can do other things in the meantime.

If you want to get all the achievements, you may want to spend only 10 minutes on the first setup for legendary armor, and let it run an hour , while you prepare a setup for the other achievements like spidertron, or all the equipment in the meantime.

[mrkev]

No. It's not about personal preference, it's about all the stuff mentioned in my post - which is mostly objective.

And no, that's not how you define efficiency, efficiency is about the otput cost vs the overall input cost.

You can define efficiency this way, again it's your personnal preference, you seem to have hard time realizing this.

You can either consider you take into account the initial cost of upcycling the asteroid, or not, it's personnal preference, if you start a new game most likely you count in efficiency the cost of the initial space platform, but OP mentionned being late game, if you already have the space platform that upcycle asteroid setup, and you are wondering if you can somehow use your output better, then you count efficiency differently.

Nope. Efficiency is the same, cost of space, materials, building time and items used to setup production is different, depending on where in the game you are. You seem to have a hard time grasping the meaning of basic terms.

Efficiency is always all of that combined. You can prioritize one or another, but that won't change the fact that that term has a pretty clear meaning.

[NineNine]

Efficiency is always all of that combined. You can prioritize one or another, but that won't change the fact that that term has a pretty clear meaning.

Not true. https://www.wordnik.com/words/efficient

That being said, there are many ways to play the game. Play it however you'd like. There is no "best" way to do anything in this game.

[mrkev]

There often is the best way, especially when you get only two options of doing something.

[mmmPI]

There often is the best way, especially when you get only two options of doing something.

sometimes it makes no sense, like what's the best between odd and even number ? what's the best between iron and copper ?
sometimes you only see two options because you are stubborn and ignore all the others.

And no, that's not how you define efficiency, efficiency is about the otput cost vs the overall input cost.

You can define efficiency this way, again it's your personnal preference, you seem to have hard time realizing this.

You can either consider you take into account the initial cost of upcycling the asteroid, or not, it's personnal preference, if you start a new game most likely you count in efficiency the cost of the initial space platform, but OP mentionned being late game, if you already have the space platform that upcycle asteroid setup, and you are wondering if you can somehow use your output better, then you count efficiency differently.

Nope. Efficiency is the same, cost of space, materials, building time and items used to setup production is different, depending on where in the game you are. You seem to have a hard time grasping the meaning of basic terms.

Efficiency is always all of that combined. You can prioritize one or another, but that won't change the fact that that term has a pretty clear meaning.

You give 1 definition of "efficency", and then another one where you say "it's always all of that combined". And you conclude that won't change the fact that that terms has a pretty clear meaning. That's not very convincing to me, far from the topic, and pretty pointless to argue about your personnal definition of a word that can be found easily in several dictionnaries.

The problem to me seem to be that you are unreasonnably clinging on the illusory idea that there exist such thing as an objective best method outside of any contextual consideration when clearly it depend on your goals and the situation you are in when taking the decision.

You don't seem to understand how a word can have a very clear meaning and yet be used with other words, like Time-efficient, space-efficient, ressource-efficient, effort-efficient, there is efficency everywhere and it means the same precise thing, yet all those things are different and can be taken into consideration when choosing which method to use to make quality products. It's even advised, rather than considering 1 method is the best and only using the same one. Because it's going to be inadequate in certain situation and lead to failures, and prevent any kind of progression and reflexion on the method if you think there is a "best method" and you already have it.

[Mr Wednesday]

My asteroid processor will make calcite, iron, and coal. When any of them max out (currently calcite, because it was so massively efficient at making stone that I capped my stone and bricks pretty quickly), they get re-rolled for something that isn't maxed out. Seems pretty efficient overall to me. My bottleneck is iron (even with the metallic asteroids processed to 100% iron) because the things I want to make, at least right now, use so much of it.

[mmmPI]

My asteroid processor will make calcite, iron, and coal. When any of them max out (currently calcite, because it was so massively efficient at making stone that I capped my stone and bricks pretty quickly), they get re-rolled for something that isn't maxed out. Seems pretty efficient overall to me. My bottleneck is iron (even with the metallic asteroids processed to 100% iron) because the things I want to make, at least right now, use so much of it.

I think too that it's pretty efficient overall, and especially when compared to recycling stone furnace.

Mine in current game are mostly turning for coal and calcite, because i'm using lava or scrap for iron and copper.

What are you making that consume that much iron ?

[Meddleman]

Here I'm making Legendary cargo bays. You can make almost any other Legendary item this same way.

Not sure why you use Quality modules when assembling guaranteed legendary. There isn't any higher quality level to achieve unless using a mod.

[NineNine]

Here I'm making Legendary cargo bays. You can make almost any other Legendary item this same way.

Not sure why you use Quality modules when assembling guaranteed legendary. There isn't any higher quality level to achieve unless using a mod.

Yup, good point. I missed that!

[Mr Wednesday]

What are you making that consume that much iron ?

I was making L3 assembling machines. Their baseline requirement is a little more copper than iron, but the copper is mostly in the form of cable where I have a big productivity bonus while the iron is a mix of plate (no bonus at all) and sprockets (much smaller productivity bonus). I suspect that there were also some differences in yield of feeds as well as possibly some mismatch in the batch sizes in which I'm transporting the materials.

[mmmPI]

I was making L3 assembling machines. Their baseline requirement is a little more copper than iron, but the copper is mostly in the form of cable where I have a big productivity bonus while the iron is a mix of plate (no bonus at all) and sprockets (much smaller productivity bonus). I suspect that there were also some differences in yield of feeds as well as possibly some mismatch in the batch sizes in which I'm transporting the materials.

I see, L3 assemblies are tricky x) , i have done a recycling loop for them once, but it was on Fulgora, and i had another chain to make them from legendary material and it was much faster.

I have yet to try the underground pipe for upcycling "iron plate" possibly on Vulcanus, my intuition tells me it must be good, but L3 require copper and steel, so i will need another target.

[mrkev]

I was making L3 assembling machines. Their baseline requirement is a little more copper than iron, but the copper is mostly in the form of cable where I have a big productivity bonus while the iron is a mix of plate (no bonus at all) and sprockets (much smaller productivity bonus). I suspect that there were also some differences in yield of feeds as well as possibly some mismatch in the batch sizes in which I'm transporting the materials.

I see, L3 assemblies are tricky x) , i have done a recycling loop for them once, but it was on Fulgora, and i had another chain to make them from legendary material and it was much faster.

I have yet to try the underground pipe for upcycling "iron plate" possibly on Vulcanus, my intuition tells me it must be good, but L3 require copper and steel, so i will need another target.

If you need huge quantity of iron, you can try upcycling underground belts. They are even better than pipes, because you can make them in a foundry, which has inherent 50% productivity boost. Turbo underground belts are great for upcycling tungsten plates (for legendary artilery) and the waste from that are legendary express underground belts that will give you a ton of cogs.

[mmmPI]

I was making L3 assembling machines. Their baseline requirement is a little more copper than iron, but the copper is mostly in the form of cable where I have a big productivity bonus while the iron is a mix of plate (no bonus at all) and sprockets (much smaller productivity bonus). I suspect that there were also some differences in yield of feeds as well as possibly some mismatch in the batch sizes in which I'm transporting the materials.

I see, L3 assemblies are tricky x) , i have done a recycling loop for them once, but it was on Fulgora, and i had another chain to make them from legendary material and it was much faster.

I have yet to try the underground pipe for upcycling "iron plate" possibly on Vulcanus, my intuition tells me it must be good, but L3 require copper and steel, so i will need another target.

If you need huge quantity of iron, you can try upcycling underground belts. They are even better than pipes, because you can make them in a foundry, which has inherent 50% productivity boost.

You can make pipes in a foundry too, and undergroud pipes even, do you think underground belt are better ?

[mrkev]

You can make pipes in a foundry too, and undergroud pipes even, do you think underground belt are better ?

Pipes use just the molten iron, so they can't be made in higher quality. Underground pipes can, because they also need pipes on the input and quality of those will dictate the baseline output quality.
Both underground pipes and underground belts have some advantages and some disadvantages. For example, unerground pipe is using molten iron, which can be made from lava or normal iron ore. On the other hand, if you wanna get most of the iron, you'll have to recycle it twice (100 un. pipes -> 63 iron + 125 pipes; 125 pipes -> 31 iron => 94 iron in total). Underground belts are made mostly from iron, so most of it is there after first recyclation (100 un. belts -> 125 iron + 63 belts; 63 belts -> 8 iron + 8 cogs => 133 iron + 8 cogs in total).

[mmmPI]

Pipes use just the molten iron, so they can't be made in higher quality.

You can use quality module in the foundry though. And time is an important consideration too, underground pipe are twice as fast to make compared to underground belts.

[mrkev]

You can use quality module in the foundry though. And time is an important consideration too, underground pipe are twice as fast to make compared to underground belts.

You can't upcycle pipes. You can make higher quality by using modules, but you can't use them for upcycling. And no, underground pipes are exactly as fast to make as underground belts, you'll get 12/s in a normal foundry (for both).

[mmmPI]

You can't upcycle pipes. You can make higher quality by using modules, but you can't use them for upcycling.

You can recycle pipes and use the iron to make underground pipes after you use quality modules on foundries for pipes and underground pipes, I don't see the problem in using them for upcycling.

And no, underground pipes are exactly as fast to make as underground belts, you'll get 12/s in a normal foundry (for both).

You are only looking at half of the problem though, they recycle twice as fast as the underground belt.

[mrkev]

You can recycle pipes and use the iron to make underground pipes after you use quality modules on foundries for pipes and underground pipes, I don't see the problem in using them for upcycling.

Upcycling typically means producing - recycling - producing. Because you can't produce quality pipes in foundry, you can't use them for upcycling. You can use them to boost your underground pipes upcycler, but not alone. Unless you make them in an assembly plant, which means you won't get the productivity boost.

You are only looking at half of the problem though, they recycle twice as fast as the underground belt.

Recycling fully stacked (240 items) turbo belt of un. pipes takes 8 normal recyclers, while recycling fully stacked un. belt takes 15. Hardly an issue.

[mmmPI]

You can recycle pipes and use the iron to make underground pipes after you use quality modules on foundries for pipes and underground pipes, I don't see the problem in using them for upcycling.

Upcycling typically means producing - recycling - producing. Because you can't produce quality pipes in foundry, you can't use them for upcycling. You can use them to boost your underground pipes upcycler, but not alone. Unless you make them in an assembly plant, which means you won't get the productivity boost.

So there is no problem in using them for upcycling undergound pipes right ?

Recycling fully stacked (240 items) turbo belt of un. pipes takes 8 normal recyclers, while recycling fully stacked un. belt takes 15. Hardly an issue.

So underground pipes require less machines and less power and less modules less intermediates and less UPS ?

Why are underground belt any better ? why not fast underground belt or underground pipe ?

[mrkev]

So underground pipes require less machines and less power and less modules less intermediates and less UPS ?

Why are underground belt any better ? why not fast underground belt or underground pipe ?

As I wrote before, recycling 100 underground pipes = 94 iron, recycling 100 undergroud belts = 133 iron + 8 cogs. That's why they are (probably) better. Recycling 100 Fast underground belts (and components) would give you 33 iron + 22cogs, so that's even worse. I'm not sure how much will the molten iron boost give you, it might make it even.
One foundry has the same power consumption as 13 recyclers, so belts use less power (per iron plate on the output), same goes for the number of machines.