The quality system needs a redesign

[h.q.droid]

What do you call recipe cheesing ? Because i don't see that word used in OP

I mean the practical way to cheese rare mech armor without having gone to Gleba, that is by changing recipe manually when a quality roll fails. Like roll one uncommon EM plant, then put it manually into the output slot of a quality machine. The machine will stall when quality roll fails, then you can change recipe to recover the raw materials and roll again. Or just save / load. It's not very practical for legendary, but doable for rare. Rolling a bunch of mech armors / rocket silos / EM plants this way can get you enough raw materials to make a rare spaceship.

Can't be automated though since there's no automated way to insert stuff into the output slot.

[mmmPI]

I mean the practical way to cheese rare mech armor without having gone to Gleba, that is by changing recipe manually when a quality roll fails. Like roll one uncommon EM plant, then put it manually into the output slot of a quality machine. The machine will stall when quality roll fails, then you can change recipe to recover the raw materials and roll again. Or just save / load. It's not very practical for legendary, but doable for rare. Rolling a bunch of mech armors / rocket silos / EM plants this way can get you enough raw materials to make a rare spaceship.

Can't be automated though since there's no automated way to insert stuff into the output slot.

What would be the point of doing this ? If you are going to reload the game everytime the roll is not a quality upgrade i think you'd be better off just making another factory and another one that would be much less annoying. Is it to "save on raw material of low quality" ?

I do not see this as cheesing to me it's a slow process and if you have to reload the game it's as if you stop your entire factory since its progress will be rolled back several time.

I agree with what you said ealier than uncommon/rare and epic legendary are different game, that some things that work "before gleba" like quality module in mining drill for quality scrap mining can get you easily with a lot of "rare". But you'd probably want to use recycler to go beyond. But having said that to me there's no point in the "cheesing" mentionned , as in Fulgora you can make your mech armor from "rare" material if you have already plenty of them.

I think now the suggestion to remove the possibility to use "quality material" to make "quality item" appears even worse, it would remove all use for quality material, but if you try to get a "rare" armor, and you only get an "uncommon" you'll be more tempted to reload the game, because otherwise you can't even recycle it and try again, you have "uncommon material" that can't be used for anything.

[h.q.droid]

What would be the point of doing this ? If you are going to reload the game everytime the roll is not a quality upgrade i think you'd be better off just making another factory and another one that would be much less annoying. Is it to "save on raw material of low quality" ?

That's the point, you DON'T have to reload with the change-recipe cheese. You just stick an uncommon / rare seed product into the *output* slot of your quality assembler, and change its recipe if the roll fails. Your factories or teammates continue running in the background. Depending on Fulgora island sizes, it can be much faster than quality scrap recycling with rare module 2s if you roll heavy stuff like mech armors, rocket silos and nuclear reactors and recycle them for quality materials. It's like 100% quality manual crafting.

And that makes uncommon material useful since you can "manually craft" them into rare products once you have a seed.

[mmmPI]

That's the point, you DON'T have to reload with the change-recipe cheese. You just stick an uncommon / rare seed product into the *output* slot of your quality assembler, and change its recipe if the roll fails.

How is that going to help you get a mech armor of high quality faster if you need to seed it with a mech armor of the desired level of quality already ?

[h.q.droid]

That's the point, you DON'T have to reload with the change-recipe cheese. You just stick an uncommon / rare seed product into the *output* slot of your quality assembler, and change its recipe if the roll fails.

How is that going to help you get a mech armor of high quality faster if you need to seed it with a mech armor of the desired level of quality already ?

You seed with an uncommon, get a bunch uncommon, then recycle them for rare.

[mmmPI]

You seed with an uncommon, get a bunch uncommon, then recycle them for rare.

I don't see how it makes the processs faster because you can't guarantee you get a bunch of uncommon in a row, just that you will change receipe and try again if you don't have it, but this you know only when the receipe has completed right ?

[h.q.droid]

You seed with an uncommon, get a bunch uncommon, then recycle them for rare.

I don't see how it makes the processs faster because you can't guarantee you get a bunch of uncommon in a row, just that you will change receipe and try again if you don't have it, but this you know only when the receipe has completed right ?

Yes. Technically, it's rolled when the production started, but I haven't found a way to leak that RNG state reliably.

[mmmPI]

Yes. Technically, it's rolled when the production started, but I haven't found a way to leak that RNG state reliably.

I know that's why i used the expression, "you only know when the receipe has completed".

I mean the practical way to cheese rare mech armor without having gone to Gleba, that is by changing recipe manually when a quality roll fails.

That is not correct, i hope it's clear now.

[Panzerknacker]

Yes. Technically, it's rolled when the production started, but I haven't found a way to leak that RNG state reliably.

I know that's why i used the expression, "you only know when the receipe has completed".

I mean the practical way to cheese rare mech armor without having gone to Gleba, that is by changing recipe manually when a quality roll fails.

That is not correct, i hope it's clear now.

He is correct, stop trying to invalidate things people say only because YOU don't understand what they are talkin about.

Learn to R-E-A-D before u start hammering ur keyboard with nonsense.

[mmmPI]

He is correct, stop trying to invalidate things people say only because YOU don't understand what they are talkin about.

Learn to R-E-A-D before u start hammering ur keyboard with nonsense.

I understand you give your opinion again, i hope this time you will not insult me while claiming argumentation is "disloyal wall of text" when contradicted after you quoted me.

No it is not correct to say the only practical way to get a quality mech armor before gleba is by changing manually the recipe of the plant producing it.

One would be hard press to find a more blatant example of trolling.

[Panzerknacker]

One would be hard press to find a more blatant example of trolling.

Hahaha, now he calls him trolling.

I think it's a perfectly fine way to cheese a powerful item such as mech armor, even if you need to manually clear the recipe a few times.

[mmmPI]

I think it's a perfectly fine way to cheese a powerful item such as mech armor, even if you need to manually need to clear the recipe a few times it does not cost any extra resources.

Agree with OP, cheesing legendary quality like that should ot be possible. Im sure this is on the devs list for 2.1.

genius !

[mmmPI]

Regarding the suggestion in this thread to remove the ability to craft finished product of "high quality" from "high quality material" that would yield a system where material of higer quality would have no use at all i see no answers.

[Panzerknacker]

You just don't get it man. I think you have some kind of disorder which hinders you from correctly interpreting text, all fine because we all have our flaws. But I think u better just go and play the game instead of bothering with the forums and making your problem other ppl's problem.

I will leave it at this, sorry for offtopic.

[mmmPI]

You just don't get it man. I think you have some kind of disorder which hinders you from correctly interpreting text, all fine because we all have our flaws. But I think u better just go and play the game instead of bothering with the forums and making your problem other ppl's problem.

( the last part isn't in the quote because it was added afterward )

I believe when text are too long you call them "obfuscating wall of texts" so i tried to keep argumentation minimum.

I understand you said believe the described technique is a cheese, i don't believe it's worth adressing because i believe you are not trustworthy and could contradict yourself from one week to the next, judging by the promise you make and then ignore ( like the private message you ignore only to try and make public scene ) my message was a quotation to h.q.droid.

Regarding the suggestion in this thread to remove the ability to craft finished product of "high quality" from "high quality material" that would yield a system where material of higer quality would have no use at all i see no answers.

[Premu]

I really have to disagree with the notion that basically everything beyond legendary is useless...

While setting up a large scale production on Fulgora without legendary quality yet, I'm really happy to have a lot of rare and uncommon accumulators, for example. They are much more space efficient.

And for your early space platforms rare assemblers and plants help a lot in keeping them small. A free 60% speed increase is always appreciated!

[h.q.droid]

Just thought of more examples of middle-quality useful things:

The ideal quality of a turret depends on the turret's distance from ship border, as lower range saves ammo / energy but you do need to actually shoot the thing before it hits.

An uncommon rocket could require one less shot to kill a big asteroid, and quality modules in explosive / rocket makers would start making sense.

[Kyralessa]

He is correct, stop trying to invalidate things people say only because YOU don't understand what they are talkin about.

Learn to R-E-A-D before u start hammering ur keyboard with nonsense.

Hahaha, now he calls him trolling.

I think it's a perfectly fine way to cheese a powerful item such as mech armor, even if you need to manually clear the recipe a few times.

You just don't get it man. I think you have some kind of disorder which hinders you from correctly interpreting text, all fine because we all have our flaws. But I think u better just go and play the game instead of bothering with the forums and making your problem other ppl's problem.

I will leave it at this, sorry for offtopic.

Why are you like this?