Gleba has killed the game for me.

[NineNine]

More or less a copy-paste of what I said in the other topic with a similar name, but about quality:

The devs forced their gambling addiction on us.

It's not "gambling" because you're not losing anything. This is a game in which resources are unlimited.

Quality is just another game process that happens to involve simple statistics. Perhaps consider this to be an opportunity to learn something about statistics and probability! Here's a nice tutorial about probability that might help you understand what's going on:
https://stattrek.com/probability/what-i ... utorial=AP

[meganothing]

More or less a copy-paste of what I said in the other topic with a similar name, but about quality:

The devs forced their gambling addiction on us.

There are tons of mods that add fridges or similar systems, but not in the base game.

There is one mod that removes the timer completely (you can choose which items, so by default the bacterials still have a timer, and for spoilage you can just recycle nutrients). The devs, however, did not do this. Or what, can you go lower than the value of 10 on the spoilage setting? Or is “but if it’s 0 that means bacterial can’t become ore” somehow a valid argument when all the devs needed to do was exclude the ores OR add new ways—like putting a bacterial ore into an assembler or similar—to make it into ore?

It looks like pure laziness at first, but if you take into account that the devs didn’t add any way to “freeze” the timer—especially no infinite research to increase the timer—and especially if you take into account that you need to transport bitter eggs (you know, a major risk that can pop at any time and make you lose), and you know how people with gambling addiction enjoy gambling the "high risk", you know that all of this was intentionally designed like this to tickle the joy of living under pressure and danger of losing everything. Or what, do you not constantly check Gleba to see if it got stuck due to spoilage or got destroyed due to eggs? And after all this risk, the joy of “winning”, if you timed things correctly, is the reason why people with gambling addiction gamble, but this is Factorio and not WoW (source of many "inspirations") or a catcha game or whatever the devs are playing that gave them this "inspiration".

If the devs read this and will do something for Factorio 3.0 or similar where they do major rework:

Please stop forcing your gambling addiction on us. A freezer is very welcome. Heck, space should also act as one. Research to increase timer (except for bacterial) is also welcome. And here’s a way to make Gleba the absolute perfect solution for non-gambling quality: as you progress and unlock research (with the last one needing Prometheus science packs (and not as an ingredint because that's not QoL but extra chore), you unlock the ability for quality trees (each research = higher quality). Meaning at max unlock, legendary seeds will grow legendary quality fruits, ending any issues of gambling and making this planet the absolute best for quality farming, since all you need to do is the same as usual—but you plant legendary seeds and get legendary fruits!

There are weapons in Factorio that can easily deal with hatched eggs. Even on a space station or on Nauvis.

Ok, you CAN make things unpleasent, for example by producing biter eggs on Nauvis by feeding the biter spawner at full speed while not having a way to destroy surplus eggs with a recycler AND not having dozens of turrets around. But that is a mistake you should be doing only once and never again. If you do that mistake again, the gambling is strictly on you

While doing my first base on Gleba and also my biter egg farm on Nauvis I made lots of initial mistakes that sometimes also led to biter eggs spawing. But by simply setting up a few handfuls of laser or gun turrets around that area there never was any damage done to my factory. Where is the gambling here?

Meanwhile I send thousands of bioscience bottles from gleba to nauvis and when I don't need them they spoil by the thousands!! I don't care, they cost me nothing to produce and ship. Whenever I need the science bottles on nauvis I have them, whenever I don't need them I have them to rot. Where is the gambling here, please explain?

[quineotio]

It looks like pure laziness at first, but if you take into account that the devs didn’t add any way to “freeze” the timer.
....
A freezer is very welcome.

I'm fine with spoilage. It adds a different twist on things. But I do think freezing is an obvious mechanic and use for the cryo plant - not to "delay" spoilage, but as part of some production chain. I think the cryo plant is underutilized at the moment - part of what I consider to be the missing endgame.

For example, you can build quantum chips and quantum computers work in the cold but there are no quantum computers in SA. The fluoroketone cooling loop with fusion reactors is the only thing that really utilizes the cryo plant in a way that it couldn't be replaced by a chem plant or assembler.

But back to Gleba... flash freezing could be part of a new recipe chain. Like maybe there's something that gets produced and used in large batches but spoils really quickly, so you need to freeze it to buy more time. Or maybe you can make a liquid out of the Gleba fruit and freeze it into "ice" cubes - perhaps as an alternative to using barrels, because liquids don't interact with the spoilage system but "ice" cubes could. Or maybe you have something that spoils into a new item and this new item also spoils, and freezing is a way to manage this. Or maybe a recipe needs cool fluoroketone so you need to integrate the cryo plant into the design.

It's hard with the small number of useful recipes and dependence on Gleba fruit for the biochamber, but perhaps managing temperature control could be a thing on Vulcanus too. At the moment there's little reason to use biochambers on Vulcanus, but managing temperature could be a thing there. I think it would be cool if you could cultivate Gleba fruits on other planets, and maybe managing temperature could be part of a climate control system.

[mmmPI]

But back to Gleba... flash freezing could be part of a new recipe chain. Like maybe there's something that gets produced and used in large batches but spoils really quickly, so you need to freeze it to buy more time. Or maybe you can make a liquid out of the Gleba fruit and freeze it into "ice" cubes - perhaps as an alternative to using barrels, because liquids don't interact with the spoilage system but "ice" cubes could. Or maybe you have something that spoils into a new item and this new item also spoils, and freezing is a way to manage this. Or maybe a recipe needs cool fluoroketone so you need to integrate the cryo plant into the design.

Those sounds like good mod ideas to me, some of them adds complexity like spoiled item spoiling again, some of them like "freezer" simplify the spoilage mechanic. I think it is good for mod because from this thread i understand some players already struggle with the spoilage mechanic, and other think it could have been expanded.

The current game can be easily modded without making it ridiculously overwhelming, there's lot of room to propose alternatives things in part due to the fact that the current design focus on essential mechanics. That may leaves some players wishing for more or different things and that's exactly what mods are for, there are several for "freezer", which i didn't feel like needing to use, nor did i felt like it was necessary to lower the difficulty by increasing the amount of time things need to spoil, but i know it's there, available for everyone that wish to use them without being forced onto anyone. Hard not to think of that as a perfect compromise for me.

[NineNine]

It looks like pure laziness at first, but if you take into account that the devs didn’t add any way to “freeze” the timer.
....
A freezer is very welcome.

But back to Gleba... flash freezing could be part of a new recipe chain. Like maybe there's something that gets produced and used in large batches but spoils really quickly, so you need to freeze it to buy more time. Or maybe you can make a liquid out of the Gleba fruit and freeze it into "ice" cubes - perhaps as an alternative to using barrels, because liquids don't interact with the spoilage system but "ice" cubes could. Or maybe you have something that spoils into a new item and this new item also spoils, and freezing is a way to manage this. Or maybe a recipe needs cool fluoroketone so you need to integrate the cryo plant into the design.

It's hard with the small number of useful recipes and dependence on Gleba fruit for the biochamber, but perhaps managing temperature control could be a thing on Vulcanus too. At the moment there's little reason to use biochambers on Vulcanus, but managing temperature could be a thing there. I think it would be cool if you could cultivate Gleba fruits on other planets, and maybe managing temperature could be part of a climate control system.

Those are a lot of really neat ideas! I'd love to see some of that in a future version of Space Age. You should consider writing some of them up and posting them here: viewforum.php?f=6

[quineotio]

Those are a lot of really neat ideas! I'd love to see some of that in a future version of Space Age. You should consider writing some of them up and posting them here: viewforum.php?f=6

Thank you, but I've already posted a bunch. I assume that if it's meant to be the devs will see it, or do something similar anyway.

[NineNine]

Those are a lot of really neat ideas! I'd love to see some of that in a future version of Space Age. You should consider writing some of them up and posting them here: viewforum.php?f=6

Thank you, but I've already posted a bunch. I assume that if it's meant to be the devs will see it, or do something similar anyway.

Oh, that's cool. I know they definitely implement a lot of players' suggestions!
(viewforum.php?f=236)

I'd love to see some of these ideas about different temperatures implemented! I think it makes sense to add difficulty by adding new ways of having to balance various aspects of production and transportation even more than they started to do on Gleba. I love the sheer complexity of more items, but at some point, I want some different game dynamics, too.

[quineotio]

I'd love to see some of these ideas about different temperatures implemented! I think it makes sense to add difficulty by adding new ways of having to balance various aspects of production and transportation even more than they started to do on Gleba. I love the sheer complexity of more items, but at some point, I want some different game dynamics, too.

I think there's a lot that can be done without implementing new items (or at least not many). For example, one of the suggestions I made elsewhere was to replace quality modules with different recipes of increasing complexity to get quality items. I think if you did this you could make more use out of the resources/buildings that currently exist, and also make the quality system more interesting. One of the upsides of doing it this way is that quality science would make more sense, and you could essentially get more productivity as a reward for a longer and more complex crafting chain.

But generally I wish there were more options and more cross pollination between all the new items/buildings, and I wish some of the concepts were taken further, like as I wrote in my Gleba suggestions. As it is, the most complex recipe is probably bioflux, which is also one of the first things you make. And this leaves Gleba (for me) feeling a bit deflating. You finish what feels like the first tier of recipes then you're done, and the Gleba production doesn't really transfer anything to the other planets because the fruits are locked to Gleba.

As I mentioned above, the cryo plant also falls into this category. I think it's a cool building, but it doesn't really do anything. Tungsten would be another example. After you've built your buildings it doesn't really do anything. Referring back to the idea of quality items having different recipes, I think it'd be cool if you could, for example, replace steel with tungsten in certain recipes to get a higher quality, or maybe you add tungsten carbide to make better quality mining drills.

The downside of this would be a big increase in the number of recipes, but I'm sure there's a way to do it. It'd have to be better than the way it is now, which is essentially building the same things 5 times (one for each quality), or just recycling everything until you get what you want. There doesn't really need to be 5 levels of quality...

[mmmPI]

The downside of this would be a big increase in the number of recipes, but I'm sure there's a way to do it. It'd have to be better than the way it is now, which is essentially building the same things 5 times (one for each quality), or just recycling everything until you get what you want. There doesn't really need to be 5 levels of quality...

I disagree with this point, i think there's very little likelyhood that devs would get rid of the quality system to turn it into what you describe as it is screaming "bloat" in receipe imo and is the opposite of what devs explained they wanted to achieve with quality, namely giving players possibility to expand "vertically" their factory WITHOUT going the route of multiple receipe of increasing complexity which was the alternative that they explained NOT choosing.

It's a good thing there also exist mod that reduce the number of quality level for players that found 5 is too much or who don't see the use for them. You should probably try them because imo again, there is very little chances that devs get rid of the 5 quality level.

[quineotio]

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of feedback and your role here, so let me explain.

When you create something, you are biased by the perspective of being the creator. Feedback from outsiders gives you an outside perspective on your work. I know that Kovarex and the devs will likely not implement most, if not all of my suggestions. But by giving feedback I am partaking in a conversation, which begins with the work itself, continues with feedback, and potentially continues through updates and further feedback.

It's very difficult to make suggestions of the kind that would be directly implemented into the game, because making changes to the game is a long and involved process that involves a multitude of considerations, many of which I'm not aware of. It's simply not worth my time to write a detailed design document, and probably not worth the developers time to read it if I did. But what I can do is provide feedback as to my emotional reaction, and provide suggestions that point towards what I feel. The developers can, if they choose, directly implement a suggestion, or be inspired by something and make their own version, or perhaps notice something they hadn't thought of, or... if they choose... ignore me completely.

You are not a developer. I couldn't care less what you think, and you have no authority, and I'm not talking to you. I've seen you berate and mock and poke holes and otherwise create conflict and be generally unpleasant, not only to me, but to almost everyone you interact with. And I've seen people repeatedly push back on you and point this out, and yet you seem to have no insight at all into how your behaviour effects others - or alternatively you are just evil and come here only to troll and upset people.

Stop replying to me, I don't care. If you want attention, be a decent human being.

[mmmPI]

That's a lot of pesonnal attack and misunderstanding, if you are going to repeatdly spam the same things on this forum you can't expect no-one to ever react and let you propose to gut the game, how would the devs know otherwise that the suggestion from one player are not liked by other players ?

It is often the case that people react in immature way in video game forum, no surprise there, the feeling of having to discuss with over excited kid that throw a tantrum everytime they have contradiction, but that's also part of life to learn how to deal with it, if you dont want to talk about the topic you can just send a private message.

There is very little link to the current topic when you mention removing the 5 level of quality it has nothing to do with Gleba, you posted such feedback in a thread you made yourself, and in other people's thread, this is no longer valuable feedback imo, it look like spamming at this point.

It is also possible that other players read your suggestion and do not realize the shortcomings, thus why i thought it's needed to explain that the path for "more complicated receipe" has been discussed back during the FFF about quality, you are consciously or not just repeating the arguments that were adressed by the devs earlier.

[mrkev]

There are weapons in Factorio that can easily deal with hatched eggs. Even on a space station or on Nauvis.

Ok, you CAN make things unpleasent, for example by producing biter eggs on Nauvis by feeding the biter spawner at full speed while not having a way to destroy surplus eggs with a recycler AND not having dozens of turrets around. But that is a mistake you should be doing only once and never again. If you do that mistake again, the gambling is strictly on you

While doing my first base on Gleba and also my biter egg farm on Nauvis I made lots of initial mistakes that sometimes also led to biter eggs spawing. But by simply setting up a few handfuls of laser or gun turrets around that area there never was any damage done to my factory. Where is the gambling here?

Exactly. There is no reason to even let the bitter eggs hatch. You can always get 100% fresh ones, because captured nests get to 100 eggs and then just consume bioflux while the eggs don't spoil/hatch (until you take them out). You can take load them directly to the silo, only when there is an active orbital request.

When you get them on the space platform, you can just start an automatic timer, and throw them overboard after roughly 93k ticks.

Same goes for Gleba. There is no reason to wait for pentapod eggs to hatch. You can just wrap the belt around factories that use them and after two rounds, just burn them in a heating tower.

[meganothing]

There are weapons in Factorio that can easily deal with hatched eggs. Even on a space station or on Nauvis.

Ok, you CAN make things unpleasent, for example by producing biter eggs on Nauvis by feeding the biter spawner at full speed while not having a way to destroy surplus eggs with a recycler AND not having dozens of turrets around. But that is a mistake you should be doing only once and never again. If you do that mistake again, the gambling is strictly on you

While doing my first base on Gleba and also my biter egg farm on Nauvis I made lots of initial mistakes that sometimes also led to biter eggs spawing. But by simply setting up a few handfuls of laser or gun turrets around that area there never was any damage done to my factory. Where is the gambling here?

Exactly. There is no reason to even let the bitter eggs hatch. You can always get 100% fresh ones, because captured nests get to 100 eggs and then just consume bioflux while the eggs don't spoil/hatch (until you take them out). You can take load them directly to the silo, only when there is an active orbital request.

When you get them on the space platform, you can just start an automatic timer, and throw them overboard after roughly 93k ticks.

Same goes for Gleba. There is no reason to wait for pentapod eggs to hatch. You can just wrap the belt around factories that use them and after two rounds, just burn them in a heating tower.

Coincidentally I found out that the captured nests stop at 100 eggs just this weekend when we captured a nest for the first time in our multiplayer game. In my SP game I never thought to test this.

[mrkev]

I've discovered it while I was rebuilding the farm output and had all the inserters deleted for a while. I've made a automatic loader, which will fullfil orbital requests from 500 to 2500 at the time. It's not well polished, as I had to add one more silo, but it works well. The excess eggs are burned, but you can use them other way.

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[1WheelDude]

Gleba has revived the game for me.

[wobbycarly]

Gleba has revived the game for me.

I'm only on my second 2.0 playthrough, and I am close to agreeing with you... I've really enjoyed my time on Gleba (this time!) and keep coming up with ideas for new configurations. And the fact that resources are essentially infinite once you are planting sufficient trees to keep up with fruit processing means spoilage/wastage doesn't even matter, even when it seems so important at the start.

[quineotio]

I've really enjoyed my time on Gleba (this time!)

It's interesting that you say "this time". Because I think a lot of the issues people have with Gleba are to do with the learning curve. There are a lot of new concepts thrown at you all at once in a high pressure environment, and you need to have multiple things working before the factory will produce anything because most things need bioflux, and bioflux is quite a complex recipe.

[NineNine]

I've really enjoyed my time on Gleba (this time!)

bioflux is quite a complex recipe.

The recipe for bioflux is two ingredients.

[quineotio]

The recipe for bioflux is two ingredients.

It's 3 ingredients because you need nutrients as well, and there are four outputs if you consider spoilage and the seeds from the mash/jelly production.

[mmmPI]

All the output can be burned in the same heat tower which can alleviate the perceived initial difficulty.

I believe it's weird arguing bioflux is the most complex receipe when there are the overgrown soils which to me seem more complex as they require shipping such bioflux to Nauvis and a dangerous product back.