I tried to see the updates from space age maybe that's why i missed it when i read again,i focused on what i expected to see and my attention was all triggered by the clock system that is also there for mabe two years and i was expected it to be gone !
That's actually pretty close to how i get my lossless 480 MW no steam tank temperature based nuke plant working.gGeorg wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2025 9:50 pm Newly added MANUAL OVERRIDE had problem, it could easily feed 3 Cells into one reactor. Which means, a lot of manual labour to fix it. That is unacceptable. I have come up with a solution, a falling edge detector which sends just pulse signal when static combinator is switched OFF.
However it is one arithmetic combinator added. If you have an idea, how to integrate this functionality into a decider, let me know.
No it is not.
I meant the fact that the failing system you made was able to put 3 cell in a reactors is pretty close the proper reasonning i used to make sure cells would burn back to back in the case where 480MW of power is needed. You only need 2 not 3.gGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:00 amNo it is not.
MANUAL OVERRIDE task is : Insert as many Cells is possible right now.
Only one safety is added, - make sure that for one manual override user input, maximum cells inserted per reactor is one.
Reading number of Cells in reactors is can of worms, because I would have to solve it separately. Some reactors could have cell inside, some dont. Means, every reactor will need another decider.
You must have misunderstood something from my words, because that doesn't add more combinators, here is an example of 480 MW power plant, no "cold tick", that uses a single decider combinator, that read temperature to trigger refuel, and is lossless (oh and no steam tanks) :gGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:00 am Your advice adds more combinators, I asked for an advice how to integrate one tick response to Static combinator manipulation into a decider.
Anyway, looking forward to your Steam tankless BP of cheap and wasteless plant.
Exactly ! but you can take it as a challenge to produce exactly 480MW that's the point of the clock in the original system it seems. That's what i made in the blueprint.Tertius wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:26 pm Just a side note: nobody really needs exactly 480 MW. If you do need 480 MW, you build another power plant in advance.
You don't even need the constant combinator if you don't target 480 MW precisely, you can use the temperature coded in the fueling inserters instead and use 47 heat exchangers. This way when a cell is introduced the temperature will necessarily increase, even if the power plant is under max load, since 47 heat exchanger is not enough to maintain the 4 reactor under the temperature hardcoded in the inserters. If you choose precisely the temperature, the cores temp will prevent a second refueling after the first, because during the swing time , the temperature would have rised to no longer meet the threshold.Tertius wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:26 pm So you don't need to exactly produce 480 MW, so it's sufficient to not use a counter to insert exactly after (12000 - inserter swing time) ticks but instead just look if there are 0 fuel cells in the reactor and insert one if there are 0 fuel cells and the temperature below a threshold, which can be achieved with a single constant combinator that contains the negative of the threshold. If it's 700°C, you put T=-700 in it, read temperature T and fuel from reactor and activate the inserter (stack size=1) if EVERYTHING <=0.
That's not symmetric. Argh, the pain!
I'm pretty sure i can make a 47 heat exchanger design that is symmetric ! previous blueprint uses 49 and is symmetric ! if it's an odd number you just have to put a "middle" rank in it.Tertius wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 1:21 pmThat's not symmetric. Argh, the pain!
It also doesn't fit the concept in this build thread to gradually go from 1 reactor to 2, to 3 and finally to 4. The cost of 1 or 2 circuit components to make this general design work is not too high.
.You most probably didnt test first version of Manual Override, then you are confused. Point is, basicaly override the timer clock, and keep all other advantages. There are 3 conditions - Steam, Cells, Timer. Steam is about looslees - eficiency has no meaning in override state, no problem here. Cells - if there are no cell then overide do not work anyway, no problem here. So basicaly, the condition you mainly override is the timer.mmmPI wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:08 pm I meant the fact that the failing system you made was able to put 3 cell in a reactors is pretty close the proper reasonning i used to make sure cells would burn back to back in the case where 480MW of power is needed. You only need 2 not 3.
I don't think it makes sense to complain that the "manual override" require "manual intervention". I'm not sure what your point is there.
I don't know why you wouldn't feed all the reactor at the same time. It seem like you want to introduce a needless cause of failure.
In the updateed series for Space age, I said :Tertius wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:26 pm So you don't need to exactly produce 480 MW, so it's sufficient to not use a counter
Check the date of the quote 6th of Feb. No need to convince me it works. On a ship every tile is precious. Here is mine :gGeorg wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:41 pm For nuclear on ship, one decider with no steam tank is the way.
I don't understand the purpose, why would a person want to override the timer clock ?gGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 1:51 pm You most probably didnt test first version of Manual Override, then you are confused. Point is, basicaly override the timer clock, and keep all other advantages. There are 3 conditions - Steam, Cells, Timer. Steam is about looslees - eficiency has no meaning in override state, no problem here. Cells - if there are no cell then overide do not work anyway, no problem here. So basicaly, the condition you mainly override is the timer.
When you override the timer, then feeding has no brake. It means, the box could get refilled, and whole batch of 4 cells for 4 cores ends up in one core. That is the unacceptable moment. That made me add the edge detector.
I wil take a look at your plant thats for sure.
When i see your spaceship, I would only change the first condition to make it =< 4 instead of = 0, and add some steam tanks or enough heat buffer for 8 cells, and you have a lossless power plant that's what i didgGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 2:05 pm CloverLeaf design is about chasing perfection. Therefore straight line power output at 480MW is a must.
I appreciate it is somewhat symmetrical. Your plant fills up the purpose of "loosles & one combinator feed & no Steam tank" that is true. Also the trick with solar and remotely controlled switch can help you (re) start the plant, smart.mmmPI wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:08 pm if you prefer picture or blueprint you also have visual explanation too !
Store heat in 12 surplus cores that is an achievement of itself. I thought you would build a field made of heatpipes, but this ... well it works. Thanks, but i had not thought of this x), this was left to use for testing contraption with a editor-mode-accumulator behind the switch, to "cut power consumption" just after a refuel when there are 8 cell, if the power consumption stops it should almost reach 1000°C but not quite. solar was just to make sure the inserter could run when you paste the blueprint, before the fuel is inserted. Robotport have a little buffer that was enough in my tests for the first few robots to bring fuel.gGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 3:10 pm I appreciate it is somewhat symmetrical. Your plant fills up the purpose of "loosles & one combinator feed & no Steam tank" that is true. Also the trick with solar and remotely controlled switch can help you (re) start the plant, smart.
I agree it is abomination, yet dense one ! not clover-leaf looking though, having lower/no limitation on pipe throughput and the rework of the fluid system in general i think allow for denser builds than previously even though it this density can have a very high ressources price. I would build a field made of heatpipes in Aquilo but if the 4 reactor are used to maintain the heat of some entities it would eat a bit of the 480MW. Steam tanks would probably be more space efficient and ressource efficient but i said there were not "stricly necessary" so i didn't used themgGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 3:10 pm But, there is a lot of but. It is abomination
Well i tried at first to read the temperature on the "coldest core" but it didn't work out because i couldn't guarantee it would be the same one all the time. There could happen a modification or damage to the power plant that would make it either the left or the right be a little colder. And i wanted to make sure they would all be fed at the same time all the time. The bottom 2 cores are lower temperature, but between them.gGeorg wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 3:10 pm Aside of that, reading temp from all 4 cores then check 2500 C is useless, all cores have about the same temp. Checking 625C on the first one is the same. The other condition for fuell cels is useless, it is always true.
Only question is, How long will take to repay the price make it loosless ? I mean lets assume cost of material coal,iron,coper is one. Cost of one uranium is 3.
Temp measure on one, feed all of them at once. It really doesnt matter (on this abomination) if some other core is colder by one degree ot two.mmmPI wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2025 4:04 pm
Well i tried at first to read the temperature on the "coldest core" but it didn't work out because i couldn't guarantee it would be the same one all the time. There could happen a modification or damage to the power plant that would make it either the left or the right be a little colder. And i wanted to make sure they would all be fed at the same time all the time.
You need to use the power switch I think.gGeorg wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:08 am I have noticed a massive design flaw on your experimental plant, when you deliver Cells by bots, first logi bot delivers 4 cells into a box. Then inserter quickly feed them all into one core. Funny thing is it does not auto balance self later.
Interesting rework to use the new fluid system for its reliability, but the footprint of the original power plant was not improved unfortunatly. But the symmetry is nice !
This is incorrect, as i said, if there is a few °C of discrepancy the power plant isn't lossless anymore, one would need to add heat pipes.gGeorg wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:08 am Temp measure on one, feed all of them at once. It really doesnt matter (on this abomination) if some other core is colder by one degree ot two.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding i only posted a quick show that it was in fact possible to produce exactly 480 MW with temperature detection and no clock because you said it was not possible and ask for me to send a blueprint so i made one showing just that.gGeorg wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:08 am I have noticed a massive design flaw on your experimental plant, when you deliver Cells by bots, first logi bot delivers 4 cells into a box. Then inserter quickly feed them all into one core. Funny thing is it does not auto balance self later.
If you want to polish yours steam-less design, make other thread for reply.
Thanks
