[Answered] Allow cryogenic plant to process ice melting

[Iridium]

EDIT: Apparently, in the real world, cryogenic plants do not actually melt ice, rendering this forum obsolete. I won't delete it yet, in case anyone wants further discussion.



[h]TL;DR:[/h]
Allow cryogenic plant to process ice melting, because it makes sense.

[h]What?[/h]
Ice melting is a intermediate resource that is used to melt ice into water. The cryogenic plant currently cannot process this recipe, despite stating that it specializes in cryogenics.

[h]Why?[/h]
1:
It makes sense for a cryogenic plant to be able to melt ice (If it can process sulfur, which is not related to cryogenics, then it should definitely be able to process ice).

2:
More uses for the machine:

I assume many players (like myself) would not make these plants just because it's not worth it. This small change will make building them a bit more viable. Here are some points as to why I don't use the plant on planets other than the homeplanet as much as the other machines (biochamber, EM plant, foundry):
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This part is to show why I don't like using the cryogenic plant outside of Aquilo. It doesn't have much to do with the topic. Feel free to skip it.

• Since the machine has no base productivity, the only way to achieve it would to add productivity modules, which in turn would slow the machine down. So you would need either a) more cryogenic plants or b) add speed modules, which is tedious because the other elusive machines (biochamber, EM plant, foundry) all have a free 50% productivity, making them faster. Adding beacons to speed up the cryo plant can work, but it demands high power and is only usesful in certain circumstances, while the Foundry and EMP are almost always useful. Note: I am not suggesting that these features be removed! I understand that adding the productivity will ruin the looping recipes, such as fluroketone and condensation

• Requires advanced space logistics to craft the machine, much more that the other 3 (biochamber, EM plant, foundry). This is because you will need to ship materials back and forth from Aquilo, making travel times longer.

• The module slots are nice, but the fact that the only useful things it can craft on Space Platforms (where space is restricted) is explosives and cold fluroketone. Some Aquilo equipment can be crafted with it, but you won't actually need them while flying to the Solar System Edge. And you don't necessarily need them for most of the planets (excluding Aquilo:

•• Nauvis has plenty of oil and water
•• Gleba has biochambers
•• Fulgora has seas of oil (only thing limiting fuel production is water)
•• Vulcanus is weak oil-wise, so it will benefit the most
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Examples of use:
• Ice was a bottleneck for me on Fulgora, so much so that I need to ship some from space. A cryogenic plant with productivity modules would help.
• Space platforms, where space is limited, would benefit well if there was more efficient ways of processing ice.
•• Chemical plants take a lot of space and time to melt water
•• Chemical plants will still be here to craft thruster oxidizer & fuel, so it's not like it's going to be only cryo plants on the platform.

[CyberCider]

Ice melting is sort of the opposite of what the cryoplant does. It cools things, while ice melting is definitely a heating process.

To be honest, some of your points about how this building is not worth the trouble are kind of strange.

You say productivity modules slow the machine down. You’re using productivity modules, but not speed beacons? Especially so late in the game? That’s on you.

About Fulgora… You say oil is not a problem, and the main bottleneck is ice. You think the only way to counteract this is to increase water production. But I say, why not reduce water consumption? Where is the bulk of that water going? Acid. And the cryoplant can produce sulfur, acid and batteries with huge productivity. So it is the solution to your water issues on Fulgora, after all.

So what if Nauvis has plenty of oil? It also has plenty of ores. Mining productivity alone (especially after its ridiculous cost decrease in space age) can get you most of the way to having unlimited ores, and big mining drills only seal the deal. After a certain point, productivity stops being about reducing resource demand. It instead serves the same purpose as speed: Reducing the number of machines needed to achieve a certain output. If you speed machines up, obviously you will need less of them. But if you make them productive, that means you will need less of all the machines that come before them.

If you think carefully, crafting cryoplants doesn’t actually require any dedicated space logistics that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Its non-Aquilo ingredients are refined concrete, superconductors and blue circuits. You will already need blue circuits and superconductors for quantum processors and rocket launches, and you will need refined concrete to pave the ice. So in the end, producing cryoplants doesn’t really make a difference in your space logistics.

[Tongs]

I agree with the other reply: the cryogenic plant specializes in cold stuff, not heating stuff.

Regarding its balance: it is important to note that the other planets provide new production machines with built-in productivity. Yet another one would be boring. Instead, the cryogenic plant is balanced differently:

The Cryogenic plant is a powerful 5x5 structure with a base crafting speed of 2. It doesn't have base productivity because it deals with a lot of looping recipes, but it does have 8 module slots, so extra productivity modules can be used for the recipes that support it.

Source: Friday Facts #432 - Aquilo

We are all free to have our own opinions, and I respect that. My opinion is the cryogenic plant is fine as-is, and I am fine melting ice in a chemical plant instead.

[erkki772]

Got another solution. Foundry. Feed foundry any burnable + ice and you get water. But then smelting animation would feel off. Maybe simple red color to blue.

[Iridium]

Ice melting is sort of the opposite of what the cryoplant does. It cools things, while ice melting is definitely a heating process.

To be honest, some of your points about how this building is not worth the trouble are kind of strange.
You say productivity modules slow the machine down. You’re using productivity modules, but not speed beacons? Especially so late in the game? That’s on you.

Yes, you could, but compared to the other buildings, which give you a free 50% productivity in addition to their crafting speed makes them much faster than the Cryogenic plant. Lets use the EMP for an example:
• 50% base productivity
• Crafting speed of 2
• 3 crafting speed if we take into account productivity
• 5 module slots
• 2 MW of drain
• 4x4

Cryogenic plant:
• 0% base productivity
• Crafting speed of 2
• 8 module slots
• 2 MW of drain
• 5x5

If we add 5 productivity 3 modules (50% productivity)
• -75% speed to cryo plant (0.5 crafting speed)
• 400% extra power
• 0.75 crafting speed if we take into account productivity

So the cryo plant is much slower than it's counterparts, and to counter it you would need many beacons (which will also benefit EM plant & Foundry) however it could be argued that Fusion Power fixes this problem.

Also, many of the recipes of cryo plants don't really need the productivity bonus; the only one I ever used was the explosives.
However, I fully understand why Wube didn't add this: Fluroketone and steam condensation would create up-cycling, so this is not the main issue.

About Fulgora… You say oil is not a problem, and the main bottleneck is ice. You think the only way to counteract this is to increase water production. But I say, why not reduce water consumption? Where is the bulk of that water going? Acid. And the cryoplant can produce sulfur, acid and batteries with huge productivity. So it is the solution to your water issues on Fulgora, after all.

So what if Nauvis has plenty of oil? It also has plenty of ores. Mining productivity alone (especially after its ridiculous cost decrease in space age) can get you most of the way to having unlimited ores, and big mining drills only seal the deal. After a certain point, productivity stops being about reducing resource demand. It instead serves the same purpose as speed: Reducing the number of machines needed to achieve a certain output. If you speed machines up, obviously you will need less of them. But if you make them productive, that means you will need less of all the machines that come before them.

If you think carefully, crafting cryoplants doesn’t actually require any dedicated space logistics that you wouldn’t otherwise have. Its non-Aquilo ingredients are refined concrete, superconductors and blue circuits. You will already need blue circuits and superconductors for quantum processors and rocket launches, and you will need refined concrete to pave the ice. So in the end, producing cryoplants doesn’t really make a difference in your space logistics.

True.

Ice melting is sort of the opposite of what the cryoplant does. It cools things, while ice melting is definitely a heating process.

Actually, to be honest, I did not know that. I just assumed that as a machine to do stuff with ice, it would be able to melt the substance.
This renders the whole purpose of the forum obsolete, so I will mark it with a strike and probably eventually delete it.

[erestyl]

I thought this was a good idea so I made a mod that does this. It doesn't do anything else. Whether it's realistic or not, it's helpful because ice melting seems to always be a bottleneck for me and chemical plants just aren't fast enough. Also it works well thematically, and it only took a few minutes to make.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/cryo-ice-melting