Either revert, or even further increase the cost of mining productivity

[CyberCider]

For those unaware, the cost of the mining productivity infinite tech was reduced in space age. By a factor of 2.5, no less. Personally, I can’t think of any reason for this to have been done. On top of that, yellow and space science were removed from its cost. I can understand space, as it’s a larger progression block than purple or yellow science. The devs wanted players to be able keep their factory working on something useful while they set up the space platform, so mining and steel productivity don’t require space science. But why was yellow removed? Was that at all necessary? And you can’t say “productivity techs don’t take yellow, only purple”, because asteroid productivity takes yellow science! And those two techs have one key thing in common: They evenly affect all resources, not a specific resource/item.

Which is also exactly why the mining productivity tech is powerful, and why it has its high cost it has in the base game. So why would it be reduced in space age? Especially when the same expansion adds many ways to increase science output, indirectly making all infinite techs easier to research.

But to be honest, I have to question the decision to make mining productivity in particular one of the “early” infinite techs, still on Nauvis. Is it really appropriate for it to be there? Its primary purpose is to allow megabasers to reduce and eventually eliminate resource pressure. Should regular players really have access to something like that? Especially so early, even before space? Resource pressure should be a prominent factor in the quest to beat the game, before all researches are completed. It drives players forward and keeps them on their toes, and it’s a very important element of factorio’s identity as an automation game.

In my opinion, it would be more appropriate for mining productivity to belong to cryogenic science, where all the other specifically megabase oriented technologies are. Cryogenic science is kind of lacking in terms of infinite technologies anyway, so this change would have a double benefit.

[Kyralessa]

If your mines run out, you have to go back and set up new mines. And this is something that isn't super easy to do remotely, though it is possible. Especially if it's your first playthrough, you might not have set up a tank for remote construction before leaving Nauvis (or other planets).

So while only the devs can say for sure, my personal guess is that they wanted to make it easier for mines to last longer so as to require less back-and-forth to set up new mines on each planet.

[CyberCider]

If your mines run out, you have to go back and set up new mines. And this is something that isn't super easy to do remotely, though it is possible. Especially if it's your first playthrough, you might not have set up a tank for remote construction before leaving Nauvis (or other planets).

Well yeah, it’s a challenge. To reduce the amount of back and forth they have to do, players would be incentivized to seek out later techs. New buildings, higher tier modules, individual prod techs, spidertrons and artillery to make remote expanding easier when you do have to do it… Except now, all of that is definitely handy, but you definitely don’t need it. You have the option to just research more Nauvis tech. You’re never under any real pressure to “get this thing, or else”. And I think the game is worse for it.

[fencingsquirrel]

My question would be, when would your propose nerf actually matter?


On default difficulty, mining productivity being half price on infinite tech means you'll only have one more of it. Nerfing it to previous levels would mean having ~8% less ore at purple/yellow tech for the rest of the game. Not exactly a high impact change.

On deathworld marathon, the hardest preset, mining productivity is notoriously bad with only the green science one being particularly useful. The blue science one is highly questionable, because you're delaying space flight for 2000 blue science for a relative ore increase of like 9%, and you'll use up probably more than 9% of your current patches. Getting to vulcanus and establishing a calcite/forge/big miner trade route, e.g., gives an ore increase of about 300%. The purple science level tech is out of the question hot garbage even in it's current state.

[CyberCider]

My question would be, when would your propose nerf actually matter?


On default difficulty, mining productivity being half price on infinite tech means you'll only have one more of it. Nerfing it to previous levels would mean having ~8% less ore at purple/yellow tech for the rest of the game. Not exactly a high impact change.

I’m not sure I follow. Maybe you misunderstood? I’m not asking for just the first level’s cost to be reverted, but also the scaling. The cost of mining productivity scales linearly. Previously it was +2500 science packs per level, now it’s +1000.

[fencingsquirrel]

Oh I thought it was one of those exponential ones. I don't really megabase that hard so I don't even remember.

Yeah, honestly that is a bit surprising that it's so cheap then. Still worthless on deathworld marathon, but that's just infinite resources on default really quickly.