1x1 containers have never been so inadequate as they are now

[antstar]

I'm not really sure why the choice was made to not add more containers? But clearly it was a deliberate choice, as there are a large range of mods the devs could have drawn from, or drawn inspiration from if the author wasn't cooperative.

I've used them in at least the last 10 modded playthroughs, so I am used to them existing. And maybe 6x6 is too big. People like me can cheese even the late game by sticking 8 assemblers around it in lieu of making a proper build.

But with the matrix of quality and inputs/outputs, there is simply no way to fit enough filtered inserters around a 1x1 chest.

Using splitters isn't always great option, as dropping onto one side of even the fastest belt has throughput issues that dumping into a chest doesn't. (The devs also chose to not reintroduce loaders - I'm sure they had reasons)

Even if we dump onto converging belts, this then needs to go to splitters (expensive splitters, often), as the inserters for the next machine will often miss what was intended for them and it will fly by and clog up the belt.

So instead of a few parallel belts - sometimes using only one lane per item - we have ghastly, expensive, voluminous spaghetti.

I can respect the no loaders choice, as I know they were already removed from the game, but we need something other than a 4 long chain of converging and diverging belts and splitters, and a larger chest would fix this. Doesn't even need to hold more if you don't want it to.

Oh, and yeah, obviously a cargo wagon would work great, but you could give us a less cheesy (ugly) option.

[CyberCider]

I'm not really sure why the choice was made to not add more containers?

…

People like me can cheese even the late game by sticking 8 assemblers around it in lieu of making a proper build.

Well, you answered your own question

[DeadMG]

Tentatively I'm going to say that they are simply not really needed. For quality, use robots; they can handle it far superior to any belt solution. Linked chests are much superior for train balancing. Large containers are, at best, a pretty minor convenience.

[antstar]

I'm not really sure why the choice was made to not add more containers?

…

People like me can cheese even the late game by sticking 8 assemblers around it in lieu of making a proper build.

Well, you answered your own question

I stated that 6x6 containers are too cheeseable - perhaps, though arguably not really. We already have the technology in the form of cargo wagons, we simply need one which can be placed on any grid instead of 2x2 grid, and which doesn't look like shit in the middle of the base

[antstar]

Tentatively I'm going to say that they are simply not really needed. For quality, use robots; they can handle it far superior to any belt solution. Linked chests are much superior for train balancing. Large containers are, at best, a pretty minor convenience.

I don't use logistics bots. I hate them, in fact. For the throughput issues I'm describing, the thing I hate about them would be simply unbearable as they swarmed the container.

Not using logistic bots is my choice, sure. But the sheer quantity needed and the charging they would need means this isn't really solving the problem of unnecessarily large builds, even for people who aren't me.

[aka13]

Containers with 2x2 footprint trivialize a lot of the current builds.
I have played in 1.0 with the containers in space exploration, and basically as soon as you get 2x2, any covarex-like setup becomes trivial, especially with "trash all unrequested". It would make neater-looking malls though

[h.q.droid]

We already have them in the form of tanks. It's 2x3, blueprintable, and placeable on even non-grid locations. It can defend itself with PLD. It can even be carried over belts. It has middle-click per-cell item pinning and expandable inventory space. It can request items and trash unrequested.

What else do we need?

[Khazul]

I find large container more useful in SA because of high speed epic/legendary production machines combined with dynamic recipe switching which is something many exploit on space platforms with direct insertion to/from platform hub.

To do the same otherwise there is the warehouse mod that I find useful for these kind of setups. There is another mod who's name I cannot remember that provides a basic 3x3 version of the steel chest that many might find useful too.

I would like to see both of these mods have an equivalent in the vanilla game TBH - functionally the same, but maybe the storage capacity tweaked as appropriate.

[Tertius]

I don't use logistics bots. I hate them, in fact. For the throughput issues I'm describing, the thing I hate about them would be simply unbearable as they swarmed the container.

By refusing to use logistic bots, you ignore a major part of the logistics and transport part of the game. But it's not reasonable to complain about balancing in this light. Yes, the game is not balanced any more if you don't use bots. The obvious solution is to use bots, if this becomes an issue for your game progress. Or you can just resort to one of the many mods that provide bigger chests.

Moreover, it would not be balanced for the game any more if it has bigger chests and bots at the same time. So it seems a decision was made to include bots and exclude big chests. The exception is the space platform, where you don't have access to bots but actually have one huge chest in the center and everything is arranged around it.

[Jap2.0]

So instead of a few parallel belts - sometimes using only one lane per item - we have ghastly, expensive, voluminous spaghetti.

Yum. I see no issues with this. It's a sort of puzzle.

Also (please correct me if I'm wrong!), I don't recall loaders ever being a part of the base game; I think you always needed either a mod or the map editor.

[aka13]

We already have them in the form of tanks. It's 2x3, blueprintable, and placeable on even non-grid locations. It can defend itself with PLD. It can even be carried over belts. It has middle-click per-cell item pinning and expandable inventory space. It can request items and trash unrequested.

What else do we need?

It has neither the expandable space nor the inventory grid in vanilla, nor connections to the robot network. It is also cumbersome to setup, and looks bad, which should discourage the usage in such a way.
Be happy 1.0 was not designed like SA was, woulve been verboten to use wagons that way

[CyberCider]

It has neither the expandable space nor the inventory grid in vanilla, nor connections to the robot network. It is also cumbersome to setup, and looks bad, which should discourage the usage in such a way.
Be happy 1.0 was not designed like SA was, woulve been verboten to use wagons that way

I’m pretty sure the only reason it’s possible to use cargo wagons as extra large chests is because there’s simply no realistic way to prevent players from doing it. It has to be possible to insert into and out of them. As long as these two attributes persist, no kind of condition or restriction could possibly stop people.

Also, while toolbelt equipment is space age only, I’m pretty sure tanks do have logistics requests even in base 2.0.

[antstar]

So instead of a few parallel belts - sometimes using only one lane per item - we have ghastly, expensive, voluminous spaghetti.

Yum. I see no issues with this. It's a sort of puzzle.

Also (please correct me if I'm wrong!), I don't recall loaders ever being a part of the base game; I think you always needed either a mod or the map editor.

Not sure if they ever were, if so it was before my time. But they were intended to be, and then removed/not implemented.

[antstar]

We already have them in the form of tanks. It's 2x3, blueprintable, and placeable on even non-grid locations. It can defend itself with PLD. It can even be carried over belts. It has middle-click per-cell item pinning and expandable inventory space. It can request items and trash unrequested.

What else do we need?

You make a good point. Though I will need them in pairs, facing each other, as if preparing for a duel.

[Jap2.0]

Not sure if they ever were, if so it was before my time. But they were intended to be, and then removed/not implemented.

My impression was that they were mostly a feature to make testing stuff easier, and then some mods picked up on them and made use of them. But I may be wrong, and that's a tangent anyway.

[mmmPI]

I don't see how larger chest would be "less cheesy" than using tanks, car or cargo wagons.

I think the 1x1 chest size makes up for good puzzle.

2x2 introduce new puzzle, but easier ones, i think it fits better for mods, as a QoL

[Stringweasel]

Belt loops with read-whole-belt-contents is basically big chests. It's also easy to use and feels less cheaty. It's a bit more throughput limited though, but with stacking and green belts it's not that limited.

As for actual big containers it's very subjective if it should be vanilla or not. And I tend to agree with it not being added, but that's just my opinion