[2.0.28] Turret electrical recharge rate is scaling with quality

[spacedog]

I have 5 legendary laser turrets on a space platform. Here's a screenshot of the power drain when 4 of them fire at once:

power.jpg (137.56 KiB) Viewed 376 times

These 5 turrets have the potential to wipe out an entire legendary fusion generator on their own for a few ticks, multiple times per second. This is completely messing up some timed circuits I have on the space platform due to everything browning out for a tick here and there, eventually causing things to drift out of sync. And there's absolutely nothing I can do about this, because there's no way to isolate electrical networks on a space platform. Legendary accumulators can't even put a dent in this, unless you have many dozens of them... and that's just for a mere 5 turrets.

It's already annoying that laser turrets absolutely have to recharge their internal buffer in just a couple ticks or WE ALL DIE, rather than doing it at 64 KJ per tick (which is 100% sufficient to fully recharge a max speed turret before the next shot). But this is just broken. Quality laser turrets don't fire faster or consume more energy per shot, so the recharge spike should remain the same too.

FWIW, it looks like this also happens with railgun turrets. Maybe tesla turrets too, but I didn't test with those.

[mmmPI]

There is no bug here is it ?

It's just the normal way the game function right ?

You are consuming too much power on your platform for its throughput that's causing the brown out. If you had enough power to sustain you turrets it would be fine no ?

I don't see from your post how "legendary" turret are different than regular on for this context.

And yes railsgun will be MUCH MUCH worse; if your platform can't fire 5 laser at the same time, it will probably have a bad time when railguns starts shooting.

Telsa too, but those do 0% damage to asteroids, so i wouldn't recommend using them x)

[spacedog]

The bug is exactly what the title says.

Here's the max recharge rate, from the game files:

Code: Select all

614   input_flow_limit = "9600kW",

So for 4 laser turrets firing at once, the maximum drain I should see is 38.4 MW. But I'm seeing 96 MW for 4 legendary turrets, which is exactly 2.5 times the base rate. Hence the recharge rate is scaling with quality.

If quality doesn't affect the firing speed, and it doesn't increase the base 800 KJ per shot power usage, then the recharge rate should stay the same too.

This makes legendary quality turrets quite a bit worse, because they have huge recharge power spikes. Yes you get more range, but if you have to account for such large power spikes, then it's way more efficient to just add a larger number of common quality turrets instead. That makes up for the lost range, without requiring stupid amounts of accumulators, or overbuilding the power plants by 2.5x to handle the spikes.

(It would require 128 legendary accumulators to buffer the recharge spikes of those 4 laser turrets. That can't be intended.)

[mmmPI]

The bug is exactly what the title says.
Here's the max recharge rate, from the game files:

Code: Select all

614   input_flow_limit = "9600kW",

So for 4 laser turrets firing at once, the maximum drain I should see is 38.4 MW. But I'm seeing 96 MW for 4 legendary turrets, which is exactly 2.5 times the base rate. Hence the recharge rate is scaling with quality.
If quality doesn't affect the firing speed, and it doesn't increase the base 800 KJ per shot power usage, then the recharge rate should stay the same too.

I think those numbers were missing the first post, and makes it more clear what you are reporting as bug, because in the first post there are also considerations about the effect it has on your platform circuits, which are not part of the bug, easy to avoid and makes it sound like you are unfamiliar with basic game concept.

This makes legendary quality turrets quite a bit worse, because they have huge recharge power spikes. Yes you get more range, but if you have to account for such large power spikes, then it's way more efficient to just add a larger number of common quality turrets instead. That makes up for the lost range, without requiring stupid amounts of accumulators, or overbuilding the power plants by 2.5x to handle the spikes.

(It would require 128 legendary accumulators to buffer the recharge spikes of those 4 laser turrets. That can't be intended.)

To me this sound like you are making a conclusion while only having analyzed 1/3 of the facts. and tunneling onto a single one.

Like more low quality turret will have more passive drain requiring more solar pannel.

You need more of them to inflict the same damage on the same area, but you need also more of them to cover the same area. ( counpounding)

And so more of them will be recharging at the same time.

It seem you are only considering the use in platforms that have insufficient energy production, because otherwise like in my game when i upgraded the quality of my laser turrets on my platform it made them just do much more damage. They start firing much earlier, and do much more damage, on the same surface. It is just so much better than the regular laser x). The energy cost is quite easy to pay with fusion so i never noticed what you are reporting. I'm saying this to illustrate how it's highly subjective when you say "quality turret are quite a bit worse". It's only in some (rare) cases of platform with low energy production and buffer capacity.

[spacedog]

It seem you are only considering the use in platforms that have insufficient energy production...

I have a legendary fusion reactor and a legendary generator. 125 MW would be more than enough for the entities on my platform if it weren't for these extra-large power spikes.

...makes it sound like you are unfamiliar with basic game concept.

You know a lot about the game, and I realize you're trying to be helpful, but your constant arguing gets old. Instead of starting out by telling people why you think they are wrong, consider showing some curiosity, and asking questions instead. It's a lot more respectful.

To your other point, I doubt anyone would ever notice occasional 1-tick brownouts unless they're doing something that relies on precise circuit clocking, in which case that totally messes it up. I didn't notice this issue until I did that. So it's understandable why this might seem like a niche use case, but the power spike scaling seems unintended so I reported it.

FWIW, I switched my 4 railgun turrets from legendary to common, and completely removed the laser turrets. It turns out the remaining gun turrets handle the medium/small asteroids just fine, and the railguns still kill the larger asteroids in plenty of time, even when going over 500 km/s. And now I'm using about 30% less railgun ammo, and about the same amount of piercing rounds. So I guess legendary turrets are just worse in general for space platforms, and laser turrets are apparently a waste. That's kind of disappointing, but it's not the only case in Space Age where legendary entities aren't strictly better. Maybe they'll address these kinds of things at some point.

[mmmPI]

Instead of starting out by telling people why you think they are wrong, consider showing some curiosity, and asking questions instead. It's a lot more respectful.

Please don't make it personnal, look at my first post , I attempted to ask question to clarify the situation while at the same time explaning what i thought i understood from your post, in order for you to potentially correct me. I told you what i understand from your post, ok maybe i'm not getting it and i'm tired or idiot, but also maybe with different wording it would have worked on me and on other people. I advise to not get offended when someone ask you clarification that's an opportunity for you to explain again maybe better the point you wanted to have transmitted. sorry by advanced if you feel like i school you, i did because it seem ok for to do so.

To your other point, I doubt anyone would ever notice occasional 1-tick brownouts unless they're doing something that relies on precise circuit clocking, in which case that totally messes it up. I didn't notice this issue until I did that. So it's understandable why this might seem like a niche use case, but the power spike scaling seems unintended so I reported it.

The brown-out has nothing to do with this "bug report" imo, you are just saying "laser turret of legendary quality consume 2.5 more power than laser turret of normal quality".

But for your doubts payers have already reported brown-out caused by lasers on platforms and questionned the consumptions : 117562

FWIW, I switched my 4 railgun turrets from legendary to common, and completely removed the laser turrets. It turns out the remaining gun turrets handle the medium/small asteroids just fine, and the railguns still kill the larger asteroids in plenty of time, even when going over 500 km/s. And now I'm using about 30% less railgun ammo, and about the same amount of piercing rounds. So I guess legendary turrets are just worse in general for space platforms, and laser turrets are apparently a waste. That's kind of disappointing, but it's not the only case in Space Age where legendary entities aren't strictly better. Maybe they'll address these kinds of things at some point.

I guessed you had insufficent energy supply that why i asked, i would have checked myself had a blueprint been provided. I guess legendary item require skill to be wielded to their advantage, Maybe i'll do a guide of the different mistakes players can do with quality and how to avoid them at some point

[Loewchen]

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