The most ridicilous receipes in SA ...

[schorsch_76]

...are in my optinion "Overgrowth yumako soil" [1] and "Overgrowth jellynut soil" [2]. "Gleba is a moist, agricultural planet with fungal hills and swampy lowlands." [3]. But it needs eggs from an alien species to create new soil where plants can grow.

The equivalent would be: On earth you cant put soil where no soil is. The plants can only be grown when eggs from a species from alpha centauri are used in combination with local soil.

This doesn`t make any sense ....

[1] https://wiki.factorio.com/Overgrowth_yumako_soil
[2] https://wiki.factorio.com/Overgrowth_jellynut_soil
[3] https://wiki.factorio.com/Gleba

[mmmPI]

gameplay > realism x)

[schorsch_76]

Yes its a game but this is so ridicilous .......

[mmmPI]

With a bit of imagination though, the extra fertile land from Nauvis provide nutrients that otherwise would not exist in certain Gleba's biome due to the different climate and condition they would chemically react or be absorbed by other species. This is probably why some external input from Nauvis is so powerful, it provide molecules that stays in the soil for plants to grow from

[Daid]

gameplay > realism x)

Always.

With a bit of imagination though, the extra fertile land from Nauvis provide nutrients that otherwise would not exist in certain Gleba's biome due to the different climate and condition they would chemically react or be absorbed by other species. This is probably why some external input from Nauvis is so powerful, it provide molecules that stays in the soil for plants to grow from

Yeah, you can see it as some germs that are in the eggs that work in combination with the seeds to convert soil nutrients into the proper ones for the fruits.

Biters also grow extremely fast, if you see how many biters a nest can produce. So they must have some very special growing properties that isn't found on gleba.

[Merry76]

The whole planet is a bit gamey... Everything grows (and rots) at break neck speed, but the only useful plants only grow where there is VERY special soil with tentacles on it. And while you can expand it in the right biome by filling stones (landfill) with seeds, it can only be done so in a very limited area. Until you get the better receipe, that can expand this limited area to the whole biome.

Given that we can extract bacteria from said fruit that have ridiculous amounts of iron and copper in it, I start to wonder if its really "fruit" we are harvesting, and not a bodypart of a rotting eldrich abomination that is planet sized.

[Daid]

Given that we can extract bacteria from said fruit that have ridiculous amounts of iron and copper in it, I start to wonder if its really "fruit" we are harvesting, and not a bodypart of a rotting eldrich abomination that is planet sized.

That matches with the people that say that Gleba is the real enemy.

[TechyBen]

...are in my optinion "Overgrowth yumako soil" [1] and "Overgrowth jellynut soil" [2]. "Gleba is a moist, agricultural planet with fungal hills and swampy lowlands." [3]. But it needs eggs from an alien species to create new soil where plants can grow.

The equivalent would be: On earth you cant put soil where no soil is. The plants can only be grown when eggs from a species from alpha centauri are used in combination with local soil.

This doesn`t make any sense ....

[1] https://wiki.factorio.com/Overgrowth_yumako_soil
[2] https://wiki.factorio.com/Overgrowth_jellynut_soil
[3] https://wiki.factorio.com/Gleba

I'm a master at rebuilding lore. The soil is naturally produced over thousands or millions of years. To add to that, impurities are also hard to filter out, and why waste a synchrotron for it? So, you can use the biters eggs, biters, known for eating pollution, to purify and produce more soil.

[Tinyboss]

Oh, easily the ice to water recipe.

Not that the recipe doesn't make sense--it's that we have to reach space to unlock the secret of melting an ice cube.

[coffee-factorio]

So I'm a military nerd. And like...

Artillery shells.

Hmm, how to explain to the non-nerd.

Artillery lets you hold and control ground. But the irl logistics of the stuff make it a high volume item. When it's used in real life you need people to conduct it a bit like music but that is to deliver a volume of fire that will control an area.

So it has to be cheap and available like potato. Pull metal out of ground, stick bang-bang in. As for the electronics in it, the Factorio engineer needs an automated exploration system and I get that. That shows up in different ways in irl systems so I'll suspend disbelief.

It has calcite and tungsten.

That's where things just fall apart. Nothing cares about calcium. There's clever bits in there that hurt people, and so tone is kind of necessary here. But calcite does nothing but exist in that recipe.

As for tungsten, someone did their homework! It is used. But didn't realize why it's there. Basically, it's for penetrating layers of armor. An artillery shell on it's own asserts right of ownership. Tungsten is when used when you want to send the ground underneath the tank a message. And it does so by pure physical brute force. It isn't a one-to-one replacement for depleted uranium but it's used for that purpose because it is heavy enough and isn't glowing.

So you got this gun shell. That you can only make another planet. That does equal ratios of physical and explosive damage. But not enough to put in the class of a shell on a tank with DU. Which is counter-intuitive because it's made out of a relatively heavy substance. And uh...

It has to take calcium supplements.

This is not potato. Shell of Elbonian army, will not use ever. 50 construction robot frames less expensive than 50 blue chips, 50lds, unobtainable tungsten drones deliver landmines. Functions as intended

[GTG3000]

Personally, what annoys me is that there's absolutely nothing to farm on Nauvis but biters, fish and trees.

What do biters eat? Are there no algae the fish feed on?

Nope, you want nutrients, send them from gleba. I get how it's a gameplay thing but it's just annoying. That and the fact that no rocks in space have actual stone in them.

[mmmPI]

When it's used in real life you need people to conduct it a bit like music but that is to deliver a volume of fire that will control an area.

But in factorio artillery shells have a radar, they are modern artillery, not the oudated things from last century that you just spam randomly in an area. Counting on sheer number to kill all biter would be like trying to paint a wall by randomly throwing paint at it. That would always leave empty spot, and waste a lot of artillery shells due to overlap.

What do biters eat? Are there no algae the fish feed on?

The fish feeds on a rare micro-organism only found in Nauvis's water, and those do not support the low gravity environment from space, the water of Gleba aren't suitable for fish breeding for this reason i imagine.

Biters notoriously eat pollution and engineers, but in Gleba , the flora also absorb the "pollution", there is way too few left in the atmosphere for biter breeding. However the nutrient made from those plants ? Well that's where all the pollution went when it was absorbed, that's like a concentrate of it. No suprise why it does wonder on biters growth !

If there was some means to achieve the same pollution removal from the atmosphere in Nauvis using advanced technology, i'm sure the biters wouldn't grow or evolve anymore either.

( i don't know what's wrong with all those rocks in space, i was told radiation and isotopes composition makes them dangerous to use but i'm no expert, i should be doing more research on the matter).

[coffee-factorio]

When it's used in real life you need people to conduct it a bit like music but that is to deliver a volume of fire that will control an area.

But in factorio artillery shells have a radar, they are modern artillery, not the oudated things from last century that you just spam randomly in an area. Counting on sheer number to kill all biter would be like trying to paint a wall by randomly throwing paint at it. That would always leave empty spot, and waste a lot of artillery shells due to overlap.

That's good criticism. I think on the count you're either right, or I'm getting into a place where I have arguments about irl doctrine and that's. :\ not game.

My issue is less that, but more that for the tungsten used I can invest in a foundry which can make iron. And I can make a volume of normal quality ammo from that iron, upgrade it by research. And that line will always be useful. But that's a point of application and I think that'll be debatable too.

I can't use artillery to maintain control of areas of land grabbed. Because for around 62 rounds worth of tungsten beams I spend a rocket in parts, so I'm at nearly an lds, a blue chip, and a rocket silo in costs on top of 20 explosive and not a part of a foundry. And it's from a mined resource that runs out in a way that's substantially different from all other ammo sources now. At the time of introduction, logistics burdens where the same.

I can overcome costs of the rocket components but not the time taken to get them. That's an inherent cost that never goes away. That's felt in research investment and investment in component construction.

After I overcome the challenge of getting rockets, I have to put up a platform to ship the rounds. Edit: stack size ends up being variable because I can ship intermediates and that becomes a puzzle. But eventually stack size is 1. And then that means a train line or a spidertron to carry that to the guns.

And when you compare that to any other system like, a million cheap drones with unreliable land mines suddenly looks viable.

And if my horizontal scaling is 0. Them vertical scaling is going to be 0*0. But all those costs go away. So why have a legendary artillery gun?

Or legendary artillery ammo?

And these shipping costs exist independent of my opinion on doctrine or application, arrived at by read the Factorpedia that says I can ship 5 stacks of tungsten beams. If I misread the situation or don't read at all the argument starts at a false premise which is also not a good thing, and the recipe invites that risk. Because the first thing a naive person pulls out of an assembler is stack size 1, rocket cap 10. The might not read the fine print on the drop down for one of four parts.

Regardless of the substance of my arguments. I think you can at least agree that the recipe is just that ridiculous.

My potato field. It is barren. Biters want potato. Not bioflux. Sad biters.

[mmmPI]

Regardless of the substance of my arguments. I think you can at least agree that the recipe is just that ridiculous.

No ! I have to disagree, and precise that i can only be agreeing with what would be perceived as a flawless argumentation.The substance of the arguments is what would make me decide wether or not i agree. And here i don't see any more arguments about the receipe, but rather how you produce artillery shell. Which is not weighting in much for my considerations about the recipe itself.

The radars, the explosive, the tungsten, all of this seem fine to me, about the calcite, i have made further researchs, i can make something up, I can pretend it's to isolate the explosive inside the shell, it's not actually raw calcite, but it's grinded into powder when used and it is used as filler in small quantity at the bottom of the shell, and to insulate the electronics from the shock of the initial firing.

[coffee-factorio]

But it's not that hard in real life! The nitric acid wants to be friends with everyone in real life! The components! The pipes! It want to be friends with you too, but ah, it's one of those toxic relationships so I decided to not be a chemist when I looked into this subject.

Calcite's actually functioning like aluminum. I'm not a chemist so the why, I'll avoid. But I know you use it for rocket fuel too

[mmmPI]

I think calcite is not used in the thruster fuel directly, but rather serve to purify the iron or cabon from the remaining impurities left by the crusher. That's all happening in the chemical plant in game, so we can't really see that it is 2 distinct processes , one taking place before the other, but that's my made up explanation to myself in case i needed one, and i can convinced myself that without impurities the yield of fuel from the same quantity of iron and carbon is greater.

Not being a chemist makes it easier to convince myself this makes sense

[coffee-factorio]

It's all good

[GTG3000]

What do biters eat? Are there no algae the fish feed on?

The fish feeds on a rare micro-organism only found in Nauvis's water, and those do not support the low gravity environment from space, the water of Gleba aren't suitable for fish breeding for this reason i imagine.

Biters notoriously eat pollution and engineers, but in Gleba , the flora also absorb the "pollution", there is way too few left in the atmosphere for biter breeding. However the nutrient made from those plants ? Well that's where all the pollution went when it was absorbed, that's like a concentrate of it. No suprise why it does wonder on biters growth !

If there was some means to achieve the same pollution removal from the atmosphere in Nauvis using advanced technology, i'm sure the biters wouldn't grow or evolve anymore either.

( i don't know what's wrong with all those rocks in space, i was told radiation and isotopes composition makes them dangerous to use but i'm no expert, i should be doing more research on the matter).

I meant more as in "why can't we farm nutrients on Nauvis". I don't think there's a way to be nutrient-positive without shipping in bioflux.

[mmmPI]

I meant more as in "why can't we farm nutrients on Nauvis". I don't think there's a way to be nutrient-positive without shipping in bioflux.

I don't think that's ridiculous looking at the existing recipe, and the gameplay implications. And that doesn't seem to fall off the made up previous story that bioflux is the pollution concentrated by plants in Gleba, and that's what is nutritious for Nauvis's organism

[coffee-factorio]

I meant more as in "why can't we farm nutrients on Nauvis". I don't think there's a way to be nutrient-positive without shipping in bioflux.

There's another one where you look at it and go: Hmm. someone thought this would be well received. The rocket capacity is 1000 bioflux.

And that's a thing where, regardless of whether or not the frustration comes from a good place, it kinda shines a light on how weak the thing is rather than how strong. Do you become Space Dealer at a rate of 1/2 an item per second; for the shipping cost involved? That gets you 900 items, and then you can use that over 30 minutes. That's not a suggestion or a goal; that's how I read that 1000 number.

It's silly to ask because on it's face the answer is "Whhhyyy not? " And the answer is like "Cost of shipping. " I don't think it's bad, I just feel like I need to vent about it a lot.