How much fruit to harvest for a small Gleba factory?

[BraveCaperCat]

Short answer, lots.

Long answer:

How much should I harvest on Gleba for making fresh agricultural packs at a steady pace? I can't figure out if its better to have the belts full of fruit (making the fruits lose freshness, the processed fruits too, and so making the agricultural packs lose freshness) or reduce harvested trees until the fruit belts don't fill up.

Background:

I've set up a minimal Gleba factory, that produces agricultural science packs, very little bioflux export (to feed 1 captured biter spawner), carbon fiber (which I rarely export, so its full) and rocket fuel (which is also mostly full). Blue circuits and low density structures I import from Fulgora, to build rocket parts. The agricultural science packs are produced from just one biochamber, fed by 2 biochambers for eggs and 1 for nutrients from bioflux. Nothing else that I need from Gleba and I aim for very low spore footprint, to not have to deal with defending too much.

I've made the factory as close as possible to a bit of the 2 different biomes, connecting the agricultural towers with turbo belts. Right now I'm harvesting 7-8 yumiko trees and 4-6 jellynut trees. At 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees, the belts are full and so agricultural packs are being produced essentially constantly, but they get produced at something between 80%-90% freshness. So I wonder, should I reduce fruit production to increase freshness, or will that result in fewer packs being made, voiding the extra freshness benefit? How do I measure what is better?

My setup doesn't lead to constant agricultural science packs being available on Nauvis, which doesn't bother me. I only want to get the maximum of what I do produce on Gleba and reduce the spores/pollution as much as is viable.

Today i figured out for myself that each agricultural tower will harvest ~ 7.83 fruit / second under optimal conditions. That is, if the tower is able to service the maximum possible amount of tiles it can reach and it is fully saturated with seeds to use. I also spent the day on Gleba mostly, re-designing my factory. I opted for a design that does not stop moving. The belts cannot fill up, as i have sufficient burners at the end of the lines which i have calculated to be sufficient to burn every single fruit my agric. towers produce (in case the machines stop picking them from the belts).

It has made my factory on Gleba a lot more stable. Letting things back up on your belt will absolutely cause you problems that you have to fix manually, sooner or later.

I hope this helps.

/edit:
Oh and for the amount to harvest i recommend producing a just little over what your machines consume. Maybe a surplus of like 5 % or so.
The flow of your Gleba factory will highly benefit from little circuit networks sprinkled throughout to keep things going.

Ah, I didn't think to try to burn fruit that is losing freshness... I'll try this, that might help with my problem. Thank you!

Ah, I didn't think to try to burn fruit that is losing freshness... I'll try this, that might help with my problem. Thank you!

I'm glad you got some inspiration.

In the screenshot you can see one of the elements of my Gleba factory. There is a small strip of buffer belt to feed the biochambers. I do this in some spots to ensure the machines always have produce to use - but it does come at the cost of losing a bit of freshness, but the machines are working non-stop. The inserter grabbing spoilage from that buffer belt is required. We must always expect spoilage everywhere.

glebaaaaa.png

Additionally i like to place little circuit networks. In this case i am reading the amount of ingredients present in the machines and the contents on the belt. The belt will only be allowed to move on if: a) the machines have sufficient ingredients loaded into them OR b) there is any spoilage on the belts. Little freshness is lost here, but these machines produce exclusively for bacteria cultivation so freshness doesnt matter.

gleba2.png

Rather than burning fruits, process them (even in assemblers), to get back seeds, then burn mush /jelly. Otherwise you might run out or seeds (not too likely, but possible). But also have a way of burning seeds if there is too much of them.
I made constant flow fruit bus, then some single product setups on the side. I am using some yellow belts as a limiter on some entrances, so not too much fruits goes where not needed.

I read the delivery belt and disable the towers until belt contents drop below a threshold.

Perfect just-in-time production and fruit enters the processing facilities within less than 2 minutes from harvest!

gleba.mp4

Rather than burning fruits, process them (even in assemblers), to get back seeds, then burn mush /jelly. Otherwise you might run out or seeds (not too likely, but possible). But also have a way of burning seeds if there is too much of them.
I made constant flow fruit bus, then some single product setups on the side. I am using some yellow belts as a limiter on some entrances, so not too much fruits goes where not needed.

Ah, thank you, I forgot about the seeds. I'm sure it would become a problem eventually, just burning the fruit.

I read the delivery belt and disable the towers until belt contents drop below a threshold.

Perfect just-in-time production and fruit enters the processing facilities within less than 2 minutes from harvest!

gleba.mp4

I did try disabling the towers, but they also stop planting seeds when disabled... which is not optimal. I operate with very few trees, so I need them to be growing as much as possible.

Rather than burning fruits, process them (even in assemblers), to get back seeds, then burn mush /jelly. Otherwise you might run out or seeds (not too likely, but possible). But also have a way of burning seeds if there is too much of them.
I made constant flow fruit bus, then some single product setups on the side. I am using some yellow belts as a limiter on some entrances, so not too much fruits goes where not needed.

Ah, thank you, I forgot about the seeds. I'm sure it would become a problem eventually, just burning the fruit.

I read the delivery belt and disable the towers until belt contents drop below a threshold.

Perfect just-in-time production and fruit enters the processing facilities within less than 2 minutes from harvest!
gleba.mp4

I did try disabling the towers, but they also stop planting seeds when disabled... which is not optimal. I operate with very few trees, so I need them to be growing as much as possible.

If you only have one biolab making science, you only need a single tree of each type. Less than a single tree. Overproducing fruit so it backs up and loses freshness feels a lot less optimal than disabling the towers. Granted my Gleba experience is limited, but I think two cardinal rules are don't harvest fruit you don't need (because you are losing freshness with no benefit) and process every fruit that's harvested (so you don't run low on seeds)

If you only have one biolab making science, you only need a single tree of each type. Less than a single tree. Overproducing fruit so it backs up and loses freshness feels a lot less optimal than disabling the towers. Granted my Gleba experience is limited, but I think two cardinal rules are don't harvest fruit you don't need (because you are losing freshness with no benefit) and process every fruit that's harvested (so you don't run low on seeds)

Hmmm is 1 tree enough? Already when I go bellow 4-5 yumiko trees and 3-4 jellynut trees, my production of agricultural packs is no longer constant. I do export a bit of bioflux and enough rocket fuel for rare rocket launches. But most of the fruit goes into the agricultural packs (and nutrients).

If you only have one biolab making science, you only need a single tree of each type. Less than a single tree. Overproducing fruit so it backs up and loses freshness feels a lot less optimal than disabling the towers. Granted my Gleba experience is limited, but I think two cardinal rules are don't harvest fruit you don't need (because you are losing freshness with no benefit) and process every fruit that's harvested (so you don't run low on seeds)

Hmmm is 1 tree enough? Already when I go bellow 4-5 yumiko trees and 3-4 jellynut trees, my production of agricultural packs is no longer constant. I do export a bit of bioflux and enough rocket fuel for rare rocket launches. But most of the fruit goes into the agricultural packs (and nutrients).

Kirk's factorio calculator says 1 biolab making science needs 25 yamuko and 10 jellynut per minute (although I don't think it's taking nutrient needs into account). That matches my experience. I have 1 tower for each fruit and it keeps between 1 and 2 biolabs busy. And the towers are disabled most of the time. I disable them when there is more than 100 or so fruit on the belt waiting for processing. If you have 3-5 towers harvesting fruit and still don't have enough that seems surprising. Are you making sure all fruit processing is done in biolabs not assembers so you don't run short on seeds? Is fruit spoiling on the belt before processing?

Kirk's factorio calculator says 1 biolab making science needs 25 yamuko and 10 jellynut per minute (although I don't think it's taking nutrient needs into account). That matches my experience. I have 1 tower for each fruit and it keeps between 1 and 2 biolabs busy. And the towers are disabled most of the time. I disable them when there is more than 100 or so fruit on the belt waiting for processing. If you have 3-5 towers harvesting fruit and still don't have enough that seems surprising. Are you making sure all fruit processing is done in biolabs not assembers so you don't run short on seeds? Is fruit spoiling on the belt before processing?

That's not what I'm seeing:

12-13-2024, 09-44-23.png

Note that it defaults to making nutrients from biter eggs, so you need to disable some recipes to get the good bioflux->nutrients recipe.

And this doesn't take into account the nutrients for powering the biolabs, as I don't think the calculator can do that yet. Which would add more bioflux requirement and thus more fruits.

Rather than burning fruits, process them (even in assemblers), to get back seeds, then burn mush /jelly. Otherwise you might run out or seeds (not too likely, but possible). But also have a way of burning seeds if there is too much of them.
I made constant flow fruit bus, then some single product setups on the side. I am using some yellow belts as a limiter on some entrances, so not too much fruits goes where not needed.

It was exactly this problem that led me to realize that productivity modules are OP on Gleba. It's the only way to produce a surplus of seeds, and after a few hours, you will be buried in a pile of them.

It's the only way to produce a surplus of seeds,

You're not using biochambers? They have an innate 50% productivity bonus and so produce 50% seed surplus all on their own without modules. So on the contrary, biochambers make prod modules redundant on Gleba.

It's the only way to produce a surplus of seeds,

You're not using biochambers? They have an innate 50% productivity bonus and so produce 50% seed surplus all on their own without modules. So on the contrary, biochambers make prod modules redundant on Gleba.

Exactly this. Just make sure all harvested jelly / yumako is processed and you will have plenty of seeds to either expand your plantations and to craft soil with the surplus. If you process all fruits you are guaranteed a significant surplus of seeds. With this methods i have so much that i have heating towers that are constantly burning excess seeds.

Kirk's factorio calculator says 1 biolab making science needs 25 yamuko and 10 jellynut per minute (although I don't think it's taking nutrient needs into account). That matches my experience. I have 1 tower for each fruit and it keeps between 1 and 2 biolabs busy. And the towers are disabled most of the time. I disable them when there is more than 100 or so fruit on the belt waiting for processing. If you have 3-5 towers harvesting fruit and still don't have enough that seems surprising. Are you making sure all fruit processing is done in biolabs not assembers so you don't run short on seeds? Is fruit spoiling on the belt before processing?

That's not what I'm seeing:
12-13-2024, 09-44-23.png
Note that it defaults to making nutrients from biter eggs, so you need to disable some recipes to get the good bioflux->nutrients recipe.

And this doesn't take into account the nutrients for powering the biolabs, as I don't think the calculator can do that yet. Which would add more bioflux requirement and thus more fruits.

I think my point still stands though. In another thread, the optimal harvest rate for a tower is shown to be over 2K fruit/min. Whether it's 25 or 50 or 100 fruit needed per minute, it's still way under what one tower should produce. If the OP can't keep a single biolab making science fed with 3-5 towers per fruit then there is a problem somewhere else.

I think my point still stands though. In another thread, the optimal harvest rate for a tower is shown to be over 2K fruit/min. Whether it's 25 or 50 or 100 fruit needed per minute, it's still way under what one tower should produce. If the OP can't keep a single biolab making science fed with 3-5 towers per fruit then there is a problem somewhere else.

You said one "tree" though, not one tower. That could explain the confusion. So for 67 fruit per minute to keep an agri biochamber busy, you need seven trees (i.e. planting locations). The number of towers is then irrelevant.

It's the only way to produce a surplus of seeds,

You're not using biochambers? They have an innate 50% productivity bonus and so produce 50% seed surplus all on their own without modules. So on the contrary, biochambers make prod modules redundant on Gleba.

An excellent point. When I first laid the factory out I overlooked the bio chambers, since I don't realize at the time they had the prod bonus (of course now I know all the unique production buildings do, bar cryo).

Kirk's factorio calculator says 1 biolab making science needs 25 yamuko and 10 jellynut per minute (although I don't think it's taking nutrient needs into account). That matches my experience. I have 1 tower for each fruit and it keeps between 1 and 2 biolabs busy. And the towers are disabled most of the time. I disable them when there is more than 100 or so fruit on the belt waiting for processing. If you have 3-5 towers harvesting fruit and still don't have enough that seems surprising. Are you making sure all fruit processing is done in biolabs not assembers so you don't run short on seeds? Is fruit spoiling on the belt before processing?

Hmm no, I mean tree counts, not tower counts. I do use only 1 tower per fruit type. But I'm trying to reduce the number of used trees, to find the optimal count.

I think my point still stands though. In another thread, the optimal harvest rate for a tower is shown to be over 2K fruit/min. Whether it's 25 or 50 or 100 fruit needed per minute, it's still way under what one tower should produce. If the OP can't keep a single biolab making science fed with 3-5 towers per fruit then there is a problem somewhere else.

You said one "tree" though, not one tower. That could explain the confusion. So for 67 fruit per minute to keep an agri biochamber busy, you need seven trees (i.e. planting locations). The number of towers is then irrelevant.

I am at 8 yumiko trees now and 6 jelly nut trees. I mash fruit and burn the produce at belt > 350 yumiko fruits and > 300 jellynut fruits. There are minor production halts (a few seconds every few hours) of agricultural packs and generally I make the packs at 95% freshness, they arrive at 55%-60% freshness. So burning the excess fruit has upped the freshness for me by about 5%-10%. I went to optimize other things and start making quality items after that, it was good enough for my goals.

Kirk's factorio calculator says 1 biolab making science needs 25 yamuko and 10 jellynut per minute (although I don't think it's taking nutrient needs into account). That matches my experience. I have 1 tower for each fruit and it keeps between 1 and 2 biolabs busy. And the towers are disabled most of the time. I disable them when there is more than 100 or so fruit on the belt waiting for processing. If you have 3-5 towers harvesting fruit and still don't have enough that seems surprising. Are you making sure all fruit processing is done in biolabs not assembers so you don't run short on seeds? Is fruit spoiling on the belt before processing?

Hmm no, I mean tree counts, not tower counts. I do use only 1 tower per fruit type. But I'm trying to reduce the number of used trees, to find the optimal count.

Ah, my mistake. I was thinking one tower per fruit. How do you even manage the number of trees? If you are sending back surplus seeds eventually the tower should have trees in all available spots. Do you build something in some of the spots to prevent seeds from being planted there? That feels harder to manage versus just disabling the tower when there is a certain amount of fruit on the belt. Also there may not be a 'correct' number of trees in whole numbers. You may find that 6 jellynut overproduces and your belt fills up (leading to lost freshness) and 5 it underproduces (eventually leading to shortages of bioflux/nutrients which can cause issues). What advantages are you seeing in managing the number of trees versus just disabling the tower when there's a certain amount of fruit on the belt?

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

[trancexpress]

Ah, my mistake. I was thinking one tower per fruit. How do you even manage the number of trees? If you are sending back surplus seeds eventually the tower should have trees in all available spots. Do you build something in some of the spots to prevent seeds from being planted there? That feels harder to manage versus just disabling the tower when there is a certain amount of fruit on the belt. Also there may not be a 'correct' number of trees in whole numbers. You may find that 6 jellynut overproduces and your belt fills up (leading to lost freshness) and 5 it underproduces (eventually leading to shortages of bioflux/nutrients which can cause issues). What advantages are you seeing in managing the number of trees versus just disabling the tower when there's a certain amount of fruit on the belt?

I am using the overgrown artificial soil and controlling the number of possibly plants with that.

As I commented above, when I disable the tower based on belt contents, it doesn't plant trees. That means, when I need more fruit, I'll potentially need to wait for trees to be planted and grown, not a fan of that.

[trancexpress]

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

[jdrexler75]

I am using the overgrown artificial soil and controlling the number of possibly plants with that.

As I commented above, when I disable the tower based on belt contents, it doesn't plant trees. That means, when I need more fruit, I'll potentially need to wait for trees to be planted and grown, not a fan of that.

In that case you need at most one tree more, because when you harvest trees just as needed, the tower is generally interrupted just as it plants the seed. So you have one "harvest cycle" of delay in seed growth, and need one more tree. But it makes managing the output more precisely much easier than managing tree numbers. (That's assuming you have a steady production and not suddenly a huge spike in fruit demand, but that wouldn't work with either of the two methods, so the assumption seems justified.)

You can also try to delay the interruption after seed planting by taking out fruit a little slower (yellow inserter or reduced hand limit), so that the belt limit is reached a little later and the seed is already planted when the tower shuts off. In case you have no more room for that one extra tree.

[trancexpress]

In that case you need at most one tree more, because when you harvest trees just as needed, the tower is generally interrupted just as it plants the seed. So you have one "harvest cycle" of delay in seed growth, and need one more tree. But it makes managing the output more precisely much easier than managing tree numbers. (That's assuming you have a steady production and not suddenly a huge spike in fruit demand, but that wouldn't work with either of the two methods, so the assumption seems justified.)

You can also try to delay the interruption after seed planting by taking out fruit a little slower (yellow inserter or reduced hand limit), so that the belt limit is reached a little later and the seed is already planted when the tower shuts off. In case you have no more room for that one extra tree.

Hmmm, burning processed fruit also needs 1 more tree... So I'll just try this, its almost a noop change. And it should reduce the pollution cloud size.

I do think burning excess fruit would lead to fresher fruit on the belt though...

[BeBoxer]

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

According to the wiki, spore pollution is generated when trees are harvested. Having extra trees growing around a tower shouldn't affect the size of the pollution cloud at all. Harvesting 8 trees non-stop and burning the extra is going to generate more spore pollution than just growing as many trees as possible and disabling the tower when the fruit isn't needed. I get if you want to optimize the number of growing trees for it's own sake, but I'm still wondering what I'm missing as I can't think of any advantages to it versus disabing towers.

[BraveCaperCat]

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

According to the wiki, spore pollution is generated when trees are harvested. Having extra trees growing around a tower shouldn't affect the size of the pollution cloud at all.

Or the wiki could be wrong.

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

Harvesting 8 trees non-stop and burning the extra is going to generate more spore pollution than just growing as many trees as possible and disabling the tower when the fruit isn't needed...

...or just letting the agri-tower fill up with fruit + spoilage. (which then has to be removed)

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

I get if you want to optimize the number of growing trees for it's own sake, but I'm still wondering what I'm missing as I can't think of any advantages to it versus disabing towers.

Well, you'd spend seeds slower, which can then be used for another agri-tower or even plantation.

Also, maybe 8 yumako trees isn't enough (or is too much)?

8 is definitely too much, since I don't run out of yumiko fruit and I have to mash it and burn the mash. But 7 was almost too few.

I settled at 8 yumiko trees and 6 jellynut trees. Its not ideal, as it results in more pollution than is necessary... But at this point I gave up and went to do other things. I surrounded the pollution cloud with spidertrons so I don't get sneaky expansion nests from the enemies and generally don't do anything new on Gleba.

Why surround it with spidertrons when you can surround it with missile turrets?

[jaylawl]

You are making this very difficult on yourselves...
Each fruit tree will produce an average of 0.16 of the respective fruit per second.
And each tree will produce 15 spores upon harvest. That is 0.05 spores per second on average, taking into account it has to grow for 5 minutes.
Hope that helps you.