[2.0.11] Spaceship does not leave when conditions are met

[mrvn]

There seems to be some extra logic besides the conditions set for a spaceship that prevent the spaceship from leaving when a rocket is on the way.

Problem is that "on the way" also means the silo is requesting items to sent to the spaceship but has no rocket ready to launch, which happens when 2 things are requested but only one rocket is available.

This causes problems on Gleba because items spoil and it's easy for the spaceship to get into a state where it requests items and waits for the rocket, items spoil and more items are requested. So the spaceship then waits for a second rocket. While waiting the first items spoil so more of that are requested. The spaceship then always waits for a rocket while the items it already has spoil. This is agravated by not being able to send the least spoiled items to the spaceship.

If no rocket is available then it should not block the spaceship from leaving.

[MechBFP]

That’s not the way platforms work, they will wait until the request is fulfilled. You can easily solve this problem by either not trying to transport items that spoil so fast, or by building multiple rockets, or by not requesting whatever item is holding it up.

Also silos don’t “request items”. Platforms do. The only reason a rocket would be waiting for items is because a platform requested it.

[mrvn]

That’s not the way platforms work, they will wait until the request is fulfilled. You can easily solve this problem by either not trying to transport items that spoil so fast, or by building multiple rockets, or by not requesting whatever item is holding it up.

No, they do not wait till the request is filled. They happily leave with outstanding requests unless the automatic system deems it possible to send those items.

If you want to wait for requests you have to add the matching wait condition to the schedule.

Also silos don’t “request items”. Platforms do. The only reason a rocket would be waiting for items is because a platform requested it.

Wrong type of request. Silos do request items from the logistic system when automation is turned on and enough items are available.

The platform may leave when it's requests can't be fulfilled, that part has it's own wait condition for the schedule. But it can't leave when the automation in the silo starts requesting items for a rocket. Which kind of makes sense except the automation also blocks the platform when no rocket is available. From the way the silo only requests items when enough items for a rocket are available and a rocket is on the pad at first I'm pretty sure this isn't intended behavior. The platform should only be blocked when a cargo can go up.

So I maintain that it's a bug that the platform won't leave waiting for cargo when there is no rocket to send the cargo.

[Genhis]

Hello, you are using an outdated version of the game, please update it and let us know if the issue persists. Several bugs related to rocket launches were fixed, although rocket requests are still given priority over schedule.

[mrvn]

It seem to be somewhat fixed in 2.0.20.

The rocket silo now doesn't request items unless the rocket has risen. So rocket launches are even slower now than before. The spaceship is still blocked from leaving while the rocket silo has rockets even when conditions are met because the next rocket rises faster than the previous rocket arrives at the spaceship. But
if no rocket is ready to rise the spaceship leaves.

Arguably that is good behavior as it maximizes the number of requests being fullfilled. From my side this bug seems fixed.

[nuhll]

I dont know.
Its not fixed for me (yesterday) - fully patched ofc - it seems to be better, you are right

But still, if rockets are input starved (like not enough materials to build rockets or not enough materials to send to space) its not correctly leaving "After XXX seconds"..... before it NEVER left, but i saw ships flyin on their own yesterday (the first time), so its better, but not completly fixed.

If the timer runs out, F**** leave....

If ships leaves while things are in travel, its no problem, just remove the request from the rockets and they throw it back to the logistic network. easy fix?

[mrvn]

I dont know.
Its not fixed for me (yesterday) - fully patched ofc - it seems to be better, you are right

But still, if rockets are input starved (like not enough materials to build rockets or not enough materials to send to space) its not correctly leaving "After XXX seconds"..... before it NEVER left, but i saw ships flyin on their own yesterday (the first time), so its better, but not completly fixed.

If the timer runs out, F**** leave....

If ships leaves while things are in travel, its no problem, just remove the request from the rockets and they throw it back to the logistic network. easy fix?

Throwing things back to the logistic network is not a nice thing. Consider what happens if the request was for biter eggs. Now they get dumped in some random storage chest anywhere on your base. There they spoil and hatch. And you probably don't have turrets around every storage chest in your base. No, I think waiting for any on-the-way rocket is better.

There is one improvement I think could be done though. The rocket silo should stop allocating more rockets once the spaceships conditions to leave are met. Finish the rocket already on the pad but do not start the next one. With lots of speed beacons or multiple rocket silos it could be a long time till the planet stop sending rockets. Or maybe it's the space platform hub that should stop requesting items when the conditions to leave are met. But that might cancel the rocket already being filled.

[nuhll]

I dont know.
Its not fixed for me (yesterday) - fully patched ofc - it seems to be better, you are right

But still, if rockets are input starved (like not enough materials to build rockets or not enough materials to send to space) its not correctly leaving "After XXX seconds"..... before it NEVER left, but i saw ships flyin on their own yesterday (the first time), so its better, but not completly fixed.

If the timer runs out, F**** leave....

If ships leaves while things are in travel, its no problem, just remove the request from the rockets and they throw it back to the logistic network. easy fix?

Throwing things back to the logistic network is not a nice thing. Consider what happens if the request was for biter eggs. Now they get dumped in some random storage chest anywhere on your base. There they spoil and hatch. And you probably don't have turrets around every storage chest in your base. No, I think waiting for any on-the-way rocket is better.

There is one improvement I think could be done though. The rocket silo should stop allocating more rockets once the spaceships conditions to leave are met. Finish the rocket already on the pad but do not start the next one. With lots of speed beacons or multiple rocket silos it could be a long time till the planet stop sending rockets. Or maybe it's the space platform hub that should stop requesting items when the conditions to leave are met. But that might cancel the rocket already being filled.

Thats part of the factorio gameplay. Ofc im open to how they fix it, but a condition, which is not working, is useless and not streight forward and frustrating. Getting your bug report moved without any reply is also very frustrating.

Heres a screenshot showing the bug: Factorio 2.0.20 (build 80511, win64, steam, space-age)

Screenshot 2024-11-23 154611.png (8.49 MiB) Viewed 574 times

[mmmPI]

Heres a screenshot showing the bug:

There are pendng request being satisfied on the screenshot, if that is the cause for the platform not leaving then it's not a bug ...

[nuhll]

please look carefully its set to OR

it should full request OR leave 120s

[robot256]

It is a *major* UX problem that every schedule has a *hidden*, unavoidable condition of "no ongoing delivery requests". To work around this behavior, the player has to move all the requests to combinators so they can be shut off externally when the desired time has passed. This completely negates the benefits of having conditions like "time passed" and "inactivity" in the scheduling GUI.

Agreed that rocket silos should *at least* stop creating *new* requests in rocket silos once the platform's conditions have been met.

[nuhll]

thank you for translating

[mmmPI]

please look carefully its set to OR

it should full request OR leave 120s

Maybe you didn't understand my words; the platform doesn't leave because there are pending request visible there :

pendingrequestmeansrocketnotleaving.png (8.46 MiB) Viewed 494 times

[mrvn]

It is a *major* UX problem that every schedule has a *hidden*, unavoidable condition of "no ongoing delivery requests". To work around this behavior, the player has to move all the requests to combinators so they can be shut off externally when the desired time has passed. This completely negates the benefits of having conditions like "time passed" and "inactivity" in the scheduling GUI.

Agreed that rocket silos should *at least* stop creating *new* requests in rocket silos once the platform's conditions have been met.

The space platform hub has no "Set request", something that's missing too. So there is no way to program request to only happen before time passed.

I think the "ongoing delivery request" is fine. Unless your bots are stuck in a loop... Hmm, what happens when the cargo spoils while the bots are moving it? I assume the silo just requests more so you might get stuck in a loop. Or there might not be any more and then you are stuck without a loop.

Maybe if things spoil the rocket should lift with partial cargo even if it is below the minimum. When the conditions are met stop requesting more cargo and any bot that dies lowers the cargo for the rocket. When all deliveres have arrived, spoiled or died the rocket launches. I think that is a reasonable compromise.

[4812571]

I believe there is a very simple solution here.

The primary behavior that platforms do not advance their schedule if there is an inbound rocket is sound. If the platform left under these circumstances, it would either cause a silo to be full of junk, or a rocket to be 'lost' (sent to space with no target).

The problematic part of the current implementation is that the platform continues to request additional rockets. This completely circumvents the ability to control the platform's schedule.

I suggest that platforms should not request more rockets if they are in a 'transitioning state', meaning that their conditions are met, and they have decided to move, but are still waiting on inbound rockets. This behavior can be achieved, or closely emulated with the already existing 'item count', 'request satisfied' and 'all requests satisfied' conditions available in the schedule UI.

[nuhll]

Again, thanks for translating

Why is this moved to resolved?

Can anyone confirm its not broken anymore?

[mrvn]

Rockets are no longer reserved in advance. So the current rocket launches and then the platform can leave, the rocket will catch up to it in transit. And when the platform has left the next rocket doesn't request anything anymore.

So there still is a delay between the conditions being met and leaving but I think it's preferable to having the rocket content getting dumped into the logistic system because the last launch gets aborted.