Items, too big for the inventory

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krux02
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Items, too big for the inventory

Post by krux02 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:08 pm

Let's be honest about the inventory. It's good to have a big inventory, that can carry a lot of stuff. But when the game should motivate the player to build a logistic network, then it good at a certain point the player is not able anymore to do things manually. I think a good start here could be to have cars, trains and tanks in their build form only. I don't think the player should be able to carry vehicles in his pocket anymore. Of course this change would require a way to get those bigger items/vehicles out of the factory. I do think here of something like the container cranes in harbors.

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When those big items then can be transported via trains, the train network that is currently completely optional, becomes a requirement at some point. I think this change could be a great improvement to the military part of the game, if it's used correctly. I like to imagine, that I can improve my automation, to ship more and heavier weaponry to the front. So that my front mainly increases through better automation and higher throughput, not just the next powerup of the shotgun, and a lot of shooting. Imagine you can build the production pipeline to fuel this type of a gun, where each bullet is to heavy to be lifted manually:

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[trivia: this weapon has been developed to outrange the enemy artillery in city bombardment, but has been an easy target for bombers]

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The Phoenixian
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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by The Phoenixian » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:17 pm

This is an excellent idea, but you're not the first to have it.

Check out the Large Bridge Cranes thread for some earlier talk on the subject.
The greatest gulf that we must leap is the gulf between each other's assumptions and conceptions. To argue fairly, we must reach consensus on the meanings and values of basic principles. -Thereisnosaurus

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by t33 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:26 pm

Ever heard of the magic pocket? :D

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by Garm » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:08 pm

I've proposed similar idea recently (https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... php?t=7475)

As well as few years ago.

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by krux02 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:49 am

it's funny that we both use the exact same example. I also think it's funny that we agree in everything without ever having to talk about anything. Then how do we get the developers attention?

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by hitzu » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:30 am

Game is built under the rule of minor punishment for creativity and experimentation. You propose something that go directly against that rule: once you've built the immovable object, you cannot just rebuild it in another place. There would be less room for minor mistakes, you would have to plan so many steps ahead that probably you won't experiment at all and will delay that moment as far as you can for just to not to be mistaken. Potentially that would be bad for gameplay.

For example KSP has this problem: once you launch a rocket into the space you cannot change it configuration. So if you forgot about some little detail designing the rocket (for example you forgot to install antennas, or lights, or the amount of fuel is too low) it could screw up the whole mission and there's nothing you can do about it but reload or launch new mission.

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by krux02 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:18 am

Game is built under the rule of minor punishment for creativity and experimentation. You propose something that go directly against that rule: once you've built the immovable object, you cannot just rebuild it in another place.


I don't really see where the immovable object is. In cas you did not see it, the cannon is on rails, and all other proposed "big" objects are mobile ones like trains, cars and tanks.

But since you are mentioning it. I think making certain structures immovable/permanent could be an improvement to the game. Yes you are right, all factory components should always be movable, and that's also how real assemply halls are designed. Factories have a lot of machines that can (relatively) simply be repositioned within the factory. Even factories itself often have modular components. But this is not true for military Structures. For example most of the bunkers from the second world war at the atlantic coast are still where they were. It was simply to expensive to remove them. The reason here is that these structures are build to be solid and not movable at all.
There would be less room for minor mistakes, you would have to plan so many steps ahead that probably you won't experiment at all and will delay that moment as far as you can for just to not to be mistaken. Potentially that would be bad for gameplay.
Yes, but less room for mistakes is not necessarily less fun. It just creates some more tension when you make these decisions, and some bad feelings, when you see it was wrong. On the other hand the joy is much greater when it eventually works. Remember games are about creating emotions, not preventing them.
For example KSP has this problem: once you launch a rocket into the space you cannot change it configuration. So if you forgot about some little detail designing the rocket (for example you forgot to install antennas, or lights, or the amount of fuel is too low) it could screw up the whole mission and there's nothing you can do about it but reload or launch new mission.
Yes you are right, when everything in the game has to be planned from the beginning, it can be too frustratingt But as long as the game has both, hard decisions and undoable decisions, I don't see a conflict here.

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by silenced » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:37 am

Sometimes, sooner or later ... a game collides heavily with realism and then it's good to remind yourself that it's only a game and most people play games to have some fun (or !!FUN!! in some cases). To keep people playing a game you need to keep the fun inside.

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Re: Items, too big for the inventory

Post by hitzu » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:09 pm

@krux02

Ok, let's imgine that you suggestions and the suggestions of many other peoples are embedded. Form the perspective of the interface how do you manage the placement of these large objects? Likely it would the same item in your inventory, that you have now. But now it is the item and you propose to replace it with a hadle or something like control panel, right? Again, from the perspective of the interface what would change? In both cases you have to pick up item and place it on the ground. The only difference is how long you have to wait until it ready to use.

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