Design Challange: Smart Asteroid Processing!

[mmmPI]

When looking at the blueprint you posted as example, it uses one belt for all chunks, then i asked the question why 3 crusher, you answered because otherwise we could use one belt only.

This is still puzzling me because it seem to me that it's not smart to use 3 crusher when only 1 can be used for "smart asteroid processing". But then the winning solution cannot exist because it require 3 crusher.

I also think smart asteroid processing without reprocessing is missing the point.

[Rauschkind]

When looking at the blueprint you posted as example, it uses one belt for all chunks, then i asked the question why 3 crusher, you answered because otherwise we could use one belt only.

This is still puzzling me because it seem to me that it's not smart to use 3 crusher when only 1 can be used for "smart asteroid processing". But then the winning solution cannot exist because it require 3 crusher.

this is nonsense. the currently leading solution has crushers. i do not know which solution you are refering to.

I also think smart asteroid processing without reprocessing is missing the point.

again i accept your oppinion, it just does not apply here. the rules for this challange are in the first post.
if you are willing to participate in a more sopphisticated and complex chalange in the future, you are still welcome.

[mmmPI]

again i accept your oppinion, it just does not apply here. the rules for this challange are in the first post.

This is not true, because in the first post you use one belt for all 3 asteroid, but later you said it was necessary to use 3 crusher to avoid using a single belt of output.

I don't get the purpose of requiring 3 crushers , like isn't it "smarter" if one use only 2 ? or just 1 ?

I am currently trying my best to make sense of the challange, i don't know how i could be more showing my will to participate in helping you

[Rauschkind]

again i accept your oppinion, it just does not apply here. the rules for this challange are in the first post.

This is not true, because in the first post you use one belt for all 3 asteroid, but later you said it was necessary to use 3 crusher to avoid using a single belt of output.

I don't get the purpose of requiring 3 crushers , like isn't it "smarter" if one use only 2 ? or just 1 ?

I am currently trying my best to make sense of the challange, i don't know how i could be more showing my will to participate in helping you

yes. as i am sure you have read, the rules do not state any belt requirements. so, the rules are in post one. if i initialy intended to produce different solutions, i failed.obvioiusly, if i had changed anything about the rules as stated in post one, this thread was now at page 17 and both our post ocunt a few hundred higher.

the 3 crushers requirement does not provide a challange. you can just do it with one if you can, and add 2 disconnected crushers to comply with the rules. so i have decided to accept one crusher in the provided design and use my imagination for the other two. because it makes no difference. we already discussed this. twice i think.

so please. lets stop running in circles. its pointless its all been said in this matter i am sure.
if you should add anything new to this conversation, i will consider to answer you again.

[mmmPI]

and add 2 disconnected crushers to comply with the rules. so i have decided to accept one crusher in the provided design and use my imagination for the other two. because it makes no difference. we already discussed this. twice i think.

i think it's the same discussion, it's still not making any sense to me, to say a challange for smart asteroid has to comply with 2 imaginary crusher, i understand that is your opinion, but also if you want to make a challange it has to be objective. And as of now, there is no rationnale with that rule regarding the meaning of the challange, it's a leftover remnants from a poorly written rules imo. It's like "make a smart asteroid processing" BUT " you have to use this not-smart thing i didn't thought of properly when making the rules and i don't want to remove as requirement".

yes. as i am sure you have read, the rules do not state any belt requirements

The rules states :

crushers must never lose access to any chunk type by belt overload (running out of collectable asteroids of course does not count)
no dumping allowed.

[mmmPI]

Small ship using a single constant combinator to manage the storage of everything and avoid overload of things, without dumping them into space.

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Copy blueprint


There is no asteroid reprocessing, but it's not in the rules that you have to do asteroid reprocessing in the challange of the smart asteroid processing. This is part of why i think it makes no sense to follow the rules, just use the ship if you want it works, and it only uses 1 single tile for all its logic.

[Rauschkind]

so, if i undertand this correctly, you just fill up the whole hold of your ship with chunks, which is not forbitten (though imo also not very useful as a solution).
however: if i understand your solution correctly, you have nothing installed that would prevent the whole hold to be filled with one chunk type, if you are unlucky or somewhere with only one chunk type.
i realize that this is unlikely to happen. but it CAN happen. so it CAN jam. thats not a valid entry then.

please correct me if i am wrong and you have in fact some system installed that would make make sure that such a condition is impossible.

[mmmPI]

i realize that this is unlikely to happen. but it CAN happen. so it CAN jam. thats not a valid entry then.
please correct me if i am wrong and you have in fact some system installed that would make make sure that such a condition is impossible.

There is such system installed in the ship, try it in game you'll see

so, if i undertand this correctly, you just fill up the whole hold of your ship with chunks,

no the quantity is choosen in the constant combinator

[Rauschkind]

no the quantity is choosen in the constant combinator

i see a value of 2147483645 for all types which would make it possible to fill the wholes store with one ore type if it was used to limit the quantity.
i see that the inserters try to insert carbon, ore and whatever to the crushers. i do not see how chunks are inserted to the crushers.
i do not see where the quantity is applied to set even a theoretical limit on anything.

so i do not understand your design. maybe you can explain it?

[mmmPI]

i see a value of 2147483645 for all types which would make it possible to fill the wholes store with one ore type.

try it in game and tell me what happens, your speculation on how the machine would function is erroneous

[Rauschkind]

i see your design in game.
i asked you to explain it.
i feel that i might not be equiped to provide the form of comunication you seem to require and i start to get the feeling that it might not be helpful if i tried further.

[mmmPI]

i asked you to explain it.
i feel that i might not be equiped to provide the form of comunication you seem to require and i start to get the feeling that it might not be helpful if i tried further.

That's how i felt about the rules of the challange

Rules:

1)must have crushers for iron, ice and carbon
2)all crushers must have access to output of all ore types at all times
3)crushers must never lose access to any chunk type by belt overload (running out of collectable asteroids of course does not count)
4)no dumping allowed.
5)the system might not jam even when all storage is filled. thats all it says, and thats redundant.

the winner will be that design which uses the least ammount of squares for combinators to control the minimum requirements.

To me it seem that those 5 rules are respected with 1 tile of combinator.

i asked many times to precise the rules, but yeah i didn't get the form of communication i was expected, so i tried to still post something nice

[Rauschkind]

look, i just give up now. you do not seem to accept any answer you get, you just repeat your question.
when asked something, you do not reply in any other form then repeating your question.
i tried. i can not do this with you. you are excluded from this challange and any of my further challanges untill you provide a mediator to facilitate comunication.

[Tallywort]

no the quantity is choosen in the constant combinator

i see a value of 2147483645 for all types which would make it possible to fill the wholes store with one ore type if it was used to limit the quantity.
i see that the inserters try to insert carbon, ore and whatever to the crushers. i do not see how chunks are inserted to the crushers.
i do not see where the quantity is applied to set even a theoretical limit on anything.

so i do not understand your design. maybe you can explain it?

Given that 2147483645 is 2^31 - 3, I would presume that the design is using integer overflow in its checks.
Limiting the amounts by checking if the signal overflows to negative values.

[MBas]

look, i just give up now. you do not seem to accept any answer you get, you just repeat your question.
when asked something, you do not reply in any other form then repeating your question.
i tried. i can not do this with you. you are excluded from this challange and any of my further challanges untill you provide a mediator to facilitate comunication.

I think that kind of problem is that your rules is somehow vague. Some of them seems to be artificial and people dont know how to actually approach that.
For example in my solution. I have three crushers. In your rules is "all crushers must have access to output of all ore types at all times". So I did that and put inserters for that even if its totally uncessary and some inserters will never put any ore in. I just did that becouse it is in the rules. Even tho I see no point of why I should be able to have metal chuncks nearby ice processing.

So perhaps you expect some level of common sense about how people understand the word efficent and you are actually tring them to force into some specific ways you see as efficeint but other people dont. That is why they trying to oversmart your rules by applying unecessary things (like me) or they simply avoid some rules becouse it only complicates clean solution for no in-game reason (like mmmPI).

(I’m not arguing; I’m just trying to point out the reasons why there is confusion about this competition).

[MBas]

I would recomment to have rules as

• Must be able to crush all three kind of basic asteroid processing at all time under any circumstance.
• The quality of solution is measured by total number of combinator in your system.

This means I avoided some of the rules, including the one about filling your collectors. If you play this game a bit more, you'll realize that this is a terrible idea for any epic or better collectors. Even with a small area dedicated to storage, the collectors will collect a large number of chunks of the same type at once, and this full storage area is actually a reasonable amount to handle the high output from these high-quality collectors.

That’s why it’s not a very smart idea to read the content of collectors at all. Instead, you should set their filters based on what is already in your system (belts, crushers, or the final product amounts) but not on the collector’s content itself. It actually make sense to have this rule instead

• (about using of full grabing potential of collectors) All collectors must be able to output all their already taken content out. No jam allowed for output inserters from them.
• No throwing intems into space allowed.

These four rules are already a challenge to meet with a minimal number of combinators, and they are essential for smooth processing. Using storage is optional, and you shouldn’t force people to use a specific method if it could harm the system as a whole.

In a nutshell, you should focus on the results: whether your crushers are working and whether your collectors are grabbing the chunks missing in the system. That’s it. Everything else should be left up to the competitors to decide which mechanics they find useful to achieve that.

[h.q.droid]

Just realized one thing: "no throwing" is no longer sustainable after asteroid crushing productivity 1. At this point every single crusher recipe has a non-zero chance to produce more asteroid chunks than it takes. Without throwing them away, the system will eventually get clogged even if all collectors were disabled. Though in practice this may never happen in a meaningful time window.

[mmmPI]

This is incorrect, as you can use asteroid reprocessing, albeit it wasn't part of the "challenge", this receipe will reduce the amount of asteroid no matter the crushing productivity.

[h.q.droid]

This is incorrect, as you can use asteroid reprocessing, albeit it wasn't part of the "challenge", this receipe will reduce the amount of asteroid no matter the crushing productivity.

Reprocessing can give you 3 chunks back at 0 productivity. It's 3 independent rolls, not a single roll.

[mmmPI]

This is incorrect, as you can use asteroid reprocessing, albeit it wasn't part of the "challenge", this receipe will reduce the amount of asteroid no matter the crushing productivity.

Reprocessing can give you 3 chunks back at 0 productivity. It's 3 independent rolls, not a single roll.

Doesn't change the fact that the recipe isn't affected by crushing productivity and that you will not clog your machine with it eventually no matter how hard you try to generate extra asteroid with it.