Rocket silo logistic is just broken

[mrvn]

There are a bunch of things that simply don't work with the rocket silo for automating sending items to space.

The only thing that actually sort of works is clicking the automatic requests box. Even that has 3 big flaws:

1) The biggest flaw in this is that it always sends a full rocket of the thing. Sending 50 laser turrets when only 4 are needed is a big waste. There is no way to send exact counts for construction work. Or 10 cargo hub extensions when all you need is 1.

2) If you do not have 1 rocket full of the item available in the logistic network the spaceship hub never requests it. That means you can not produce the items on demand as needed. I do not need 10 cargo hug extensions sitting around in a provider chest.

3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.


So if the automatic fails lets turn to manually filling the rocket. Oh where do I start:

1) You can read out the requests and the contents. But not at the same time. So you have no idea how much of what is requested is already loaded.

2) All the requests of all the space platforms are merged. You have no idea which platform requests what.

3) There is no way to say to which platform to send the rocket or when to send it. There seems to be some automatic to send the rocket when it is full, but only when it is filled by a single item to capacity. Any mixture seems to prevent launch. Maybe because with a mixture have the content could be for platform A and the rest for platform B.

4) When a rocket is launched the silo still requests the same items. There is no way to detect a rocket in transit, no way to detect a rocket launch and use ones own timer till it lands or something. Why isn't the hub subtracting the rocket content from the request while in transit? That would be just like provider chests subtracking the "picking up" items from their content.

5) There is no option to send items to the trash slots. I want the option to only keep requested items in the rocket silo. That way excess items in the hands of inserters on the last load could be expelled.

So not only do I have to send 10 hub cargo extensions to launch the rocket. I then send 10 more because because it requests another 10 until the rocket has landed. Now the hub has 19 unused cargo extensions.

[Rseding91]

3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.

Rocket silos auto request from buffer chests so this point is simply not true.

Regarding the rest of your post - nothing you said here is a bug. Moving to ideas and suggestions.

[mrvn]

3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.

Rocket silos auto request from buffer chests so this point is simply not true.

That is strange them. I had the silo stuck like that and I could see the items in a buffer chest. Maybe there was a break in the logistic coverage between the silo and the buffer chest in question. Can't reproduce it now either. My bad.

So lets turn that around: There is no option for them to not request from buffer chest and drain local building materials.

Regarding the rest of your post - nothing you said here is a bug. Moving to ideas and suggestions.

If you think so that's fine. So far it's only a problem looking for a solution. I didn't feel like this would be fleshed out enough or thought through to count as an idea and suggestion yet.

[Erfar]

Also if rocket are 100% full with parts for constructiuon but those parts are different rocket don't launch automaticaly. There should be a some sort of checkbox to automaticaly send mixed cargo

[mrvn]

Also if rocket are 100% full with parts for constructiuon but those parts are different rocket don't launch automaticaly. There should be a some sort of checkbox to automaticaly send mixed cargo

I assume you mean parts for different platforms, not different rockets.

[mrvn]

Another missing feature:

There is no signal to say how many rockets (parts) are present in the silo. Is there a rocket ready to lift off? Are there two?


Maybe the rocket silo could have attachments (like the cargo extension for the hub) that act as control modules for the space platforms. Lets call it the Payload Assembly Building. For each space platform you attach one to the silo and configure it to the name of the space platform. It then has the wire connections to read out the requests for that platform and you would insert the payload into it. Once full it transfers over to the rocket and lifts off. The attachment would be cheap so building a bunch of them wouldn't hurt.

[myridium]

Another missing feature:

There is no signal to say how many rockets (parts) are present in the silo. Is there a rocket ready to lift off? Are there two?


Maybe the rocket silo could have attachments (like the cargo extension for the hub) that act as control modules for the space platforms. Lets call it the Payload Assembly Building. For each space platform you attach one to the silo and configure it to the name of the space platform. It then has the wire connections to read out the requests for that platform and you would insert the payload into it. Once full it transfers over to the rocket and lifts off. The attachment would be cheap so building a bunch of them wouldn't hurt.

I agree with all of your observations (except the bit about not accepting from buffer chests which I think is factually incorrect). Your idea here is better than what the devs came up with, for sure.

The problem is that the devs haven't upheld the same standard they had with the original game. The circuit conditions etc are just there to be 'garnish' and to give the appearance of having freedom and choice to design your factory the way you want. Everything else has circuit conditions so they felt they should add some, but they don't really care what they are. The truth is that circuit conditions have always been a second-class feature in Factorio from the very beginning. There were always problems trying to do any fancy automated stuff with it and ultimately the devs just expect you to use bots for almost everything.

The same is true for this expansion: there is a very particular way of doing the thing (with logistics, automatically, in bulk quantities) and you are meant to do it that way. They are not interested in supporting other ways of doing things, even if the design of the game leads you to believe they are. It's unfortunate but the only reasonable conclusion given how awful the interplanetary logistics/circuits are in the expansion.

[mrvn]

One more problem:

How do I load cargo on one planet and unload it on another? I can set up a request for items to load them. But that request has no "is at X" condition. So it would also load the same items at the target planet. I can unload cargo by requesting it on the planet. But I suspect the bots would then just carry the items back to the rocket silo and lift them back into orbit, since the hub requests them. This looks like it's going to just loop.

My suggestion for this would be for the "Item Count" condition to also generate requests. So an "Item Count: Recycler >= 20" in the schedule for Fulgora would request 20 Recycler on Fulgora. And then they can be safely unloaded at Nauvis.

[mmmPI]

One more problem:
How do I load cargo on one planet and unload it on another?

When you setup a request to load "recycler" you have to specify which planet you request it from. It won't unload the recycler at this planet, since you are requesting them from that planet.

However if the platform goes over to another planet which request recyler at their landing pad and the platform has the tick box for allow "unload" on that planet in their schedule, then the recycler will be dropped on that planet

But I suspect the bots would then just carry the items back to the rocket silo and lift them back into orbit, since the hub requests them. This looks like it's going to just loop.

No this doesn't happen in game when playing

[mrvn]

One more problem:
How do I load cargo on one planet and unload it on another?

When you setup a request to load "recycler" you have to specify which planet you request it from. It won't unload the recycler at this planet, since you are requesting them from that planet.

However if the platform goes over to another planet which request recyler at their landing pad and the platform has the tick box for allow "unload" on that planet in their schedule, then the recycler will be dropped on that planet

But I suspect the bots would then just carry the items back to the rocket silo and lift them back into orbit, since the hub requests them. This looks like it's going to just loop.

No this doesn't happen in game when playing

Ahh, I'm blind. When creating the request right at the bottom there is an "Import from <planet>". This seems to default to Nauvis except for items that can not be build on Nauvis. So so far it was always set correct automatically for me. Thanks for making me look again.


This is not very visible though. Might be better to make this a setting for the Section and show the planet icon in the main window.

[mmmPI]

This is not very visible though. Might be better to make this a setting for the Section and show the planet icon in the main window.

It's better when you use one thread per suggestion i think, it allow for them to be more visible, due to having a title that match the suggestion.

This new suggestion seem to forget that one logistic group / request doesn't necessarily have to come from the same planet for example you can have a ship that's called "defense supplyer" and it would supply tesla turret from Fulgora to all planets ( except fulgora ) but in the same group you would also have rocket turret, picked up from Gleba and distributed to all other planets, by the same ship, from the same request group.

You could use the rich text icons if you make it so in your game though. It look like this :

example rich text.jpg (41.84 KiB) Viewed 1187 times

[J-H]

+1 to "I haven't been able to figure out rocket logistics" so far. The only way I've gotten a platform to request anything is by having a full chest of it sitting next to the port with an arm. It never seems to just pull from the network on planet like it ought to.

[mrvn]

This is not very visible though. Might be better to make this a setting for the Section and show the planet icon in the main window.

It's better when you use one thread per suggestion i think, it allow for them to be more visible, due to having a title that match the suggestion.

This new suggestion seem to forget that one logistic group / request doesn't necessarily have to come from the same planet for example you can have a ship that's called "defense supplyer" and it would supply tesla turret from Fulgora to all planets ( except fulgora ) but in the same group you would also have rocket turret, picked up from Gleba and distributed to all other planets, by the same ship, from the same request group.

You could use the rich text icons if you make it so in your game though. It look like this :example rich text.jpg

That was my suggestion, except you would set the planet in the section, not per item.

[mrvn]

And now that I see the "Import from" option I see another problem: I want to import repair packs from everywhere but you can't delete the planet from the "Import from" option.

[mmmPI]

That was my suggestion, except you would set the planet in the section, not per item.

The title doesn't reflect the suggestion itself was what i meant, it makes it hard to find what you suggest.

Plus it wouldn't work with the current fact that on a logistic group can be requested items from different planets which i prefer.

And now that I see the "Import from" option I see another problem: I want to import repair packs from everywhere but you can't delete the planet from the "Import from" option.

You have to request them from every planet.

Similarly as if your suggestion was implemented, you would have to add "repair pack" in each "planet"-section, or add a "every planet" section, but then it would be a mess if you want repair packs from "every planet except Aquilo". Again here i prefer the current version.

[bullipatty]

3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.

Rocket silos auto request from buffer chests so this point is simply not true.

Regarding the rest of your post - nothing you said here is a bug. Moving to ideas and suggestions.

no it simply doesn't. if it's supposed to it's a bug... what happened to factorio and the staff, the f?
i had red splitters and other items collected in a buffer chest and rocket did not send them ever, always said i didn't have enough...
also even when the ship is supposed to start. target and start planet stay the same signal till the ship actually moves etc... overall i'm getting rly dissatisfied with factorio, and your dishonest response made it way worse.

and i wouldn't even need he buffer chest if the bay would propagate the request to the logistic network signals you can read from a roboport.


PS the requests from the platform are auto set for building, which would usually be auto served, but not from buffer chests...

[mmmPI]

no it simply doesn't. if it's supposed to it's a bug...

You should provide a save game if it doesn't work in your game, make a proper bug report following : viewtopic.php?t=3638

There is no way know what is wrong in your game otherwise.

Because for me it works just fine, here is a picture of my buffer chest requesting science near my gleba silo, bots picks up science from the buffer chest and put them into the silo just fine :

buffer chest next to silo works fine.jpg (315.37 KiB) Viewed 1062 times

[mrvn]

3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.

Rocket silos auto request from buffer chests so this point is simply not true.

Regarding the rest of your post - nothing you said here is a bug. Moving to ideas and suggestions.

no it simply doesn't. if it's supposed to it's a bug... what happened to factorio and the staff, the f?
i had red splitters and other items collected in a buffer chest and rocket did not send them ever, always said i didn't have enough...
also even when the ship is supposed to start. target and start planet stay the same signal till the ship actually moves etc... overall i'm getting rly dissatisfied with factorio, and your dishonest response made it way worse.

and i wouldn't even need he buffer chest if the bay would propagate the request to the logistic network signals you can read from a roboport.


PS the requests from the platform are auto set for building, which would usually be auto served, but not from buffer chests...

I had the same problem in the game before but after my post I tried it again and it worked. So it works at least in some cases. Time to get a savegame where it doesn't work and file it a bug.

[imi___]

+1. I agree that the silo logistic is not usable. Especially for building new platforms, I found the current system so frustrating, that I rather plop a requester chest with my blueprint copied into a section, wait until everything arrives, disable the request and then insert it into the silo (manually clicking the "Transport" button every minute).

It sucks, but you gotta do, what you gotta do...

Edit: I just found out, that you can also request the same blueprint on the empty Space platform hub and then the rockets will auto-launch once they are filled up by the inserter (without the "automatic requests from space platform" set). Seems like a bug, but please Wube, don't fix it! At least now the whole "building a platform" is somewhat semi-automatic possible, although with one of the most clunky UI's possible...
Editedit: Never mind. That only works if the payload is only one item. So still completely useless.. sigh

[mrvn]

+1. I agree that the silo logistic is not usable. Especially for building new platforms, I found the current system so frustrating, that I rather plop a requester chest with my blueprint copied into a section, wait until everything arrives, disable the request and then insert it into the silo (manually clicking the "Transport" button every minute).

It sucks, but you gotta do, what you gotta do...

Edit: I just found out, that you can also request the same blueprint on the empty Space platform hub and then the rockets will auto-launch once they are filled up by the inserter (without the "automatic requests from space platform" set). Seems like a bug, but please Wube, don't fix it! At least now the whole "building a platform" is somewhat semi-automatic possible, although with one of the most clunky UI's possible...
Editedit: Never mind. That only works if the payload is only one item. So still completely useless.. sigh

It seems that if the payload is full and just one item type then the rocket auto launches. Any mixed cargo and the silo has a problem that it doesn't know where to go if the items are requested by different hubs I guess. So it never even checks if they go to the same hub, or that you only have one.