Why are cliff explosives locked behind Space/Metallurgic science pack

[babieswithrabies]

Why are cliff explosives locked behind Space/Metallurgic science pack??? This seems like a mistake... I can launch a rocket but I can't blow up a cliff?

[mmmPI]

you can use nukes to get rid of cliffs, otherwise you do need to go to another planet. This was documented in the FFF as a choice, no way it's a mistake.

[gritlor]

I think babieswithrabies is right.
I consider this a bad choice as well.
Why do i need to wait so long to remove cliffs from the map?
Especially when dynamite is researched.

[Kalanndok]

It's a game design choice to incentivize getting your butt out of Nauvis.

"Space Age" is for exploring space to get everything.
"Everything on Nauvis" is still available though. Just play without the space age mod.

[bjornp]

It's a game design choice to incentivize getting your butt out of Nauvis.

Sure, but I still need to:

• Build a proper starter/intermediate base
• Set up miners at outposts and run trains in between
• Build an exterior wall with automatic ammo supply
• Automate a bunch of stuff so I can manage the base remotely

Before I'm comfortable leaving the planet. And those things take quite a bit more effort if there's cliffs in the way.

It's a first play-through; I have no clue if I'm going to be able to get back quickly or what "going to another" planet entails exactly so I do understand players being cautions and wanting their Nauvis base to be pretty ready before heading off.

Edit: FFF #373 even says "but you still are expected to build bigger in preparation of what is to come" in regards to building a base to sustain rocket launches.

[mmmPI]

You can use elevated rails before going to another planet if you want to alleviate the cliffs difficulty. But with the new 2.0 cliff generation i found it not necessary.

I think space age gives you more incentive to rebuild your base with technologies acquired from different planets, so that you may want to build a temporary rail setup with not as much effort as a proper one and upgrade it later, like an intermediate train system for intermediate base that could do with a little wiggly room , like going over a cliff you can't yet destroy. The new curves offer lots of flexibility to avoid them otherwise.

[picklock]

For those who find the new unlock of cliff explosives in Factorio: Space Age annoying or who want to build your base on Nauvis safely and to your liking without being hindered by cliffs before you leave the planet, I have created a mod.
You can find it here.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/PickNauvisCliffExplosives

[bjornp]

I have played a couple more hours and changed my mind. The new cliff generation is way better than before, and it makes biter defence easier since there are now few small choke points. I feel cliff explosives will really only be necessary if you want to start mega-basing on Nauvis.

[ManaUser]

Partly it's because Vulcanus is very mountainous (full of cliffs) and if you already had cliff explosives when you got there it would trivialize the challenge of building there, so instead you have to build there first before you can make them.