Update Burner Insert fuel logic

[RiverRob]

TL;DR

Change burner inserter to not reach for non-fuel unless already fueled.
Possible option to blueprint burner inserters with fuel requested (construction bot request)

What ?

If the burner inserter is presented with non-fuel items as its first items to transfer, it uses up its initial fuel load and can't refuel itself. Additionally, it will run itself out of fuel if presented with work but no fuel.
Change the logic to something similar to train refueling interrupts that says "if fuel is below X, only pick up fuel for yourself."

Why ?

Burner inserters will be more useful without the initial hassle of priming all related belts with fuel first.
I think burner inserters will be especially useful on space platforms for to keep power usage down and having the fuel from asteroids available.

[PennyJim]

They will prioritize fuel over resources if given the option; just make sure they have enough fuel.

They're also a pretty bad early-game item. I think removing some of the challenges with them is counter to their point.

[sarge945]

I'm not against the idea of early-game tech having niche uses later on in the game, or still being generally useful in some niche cases. A straight A->B technology progression is somewhat boring, completely obsoleting old tech. Having old tech still be tangentially useful adds extra depth and allows more interesting designs.

The problem with burner inserters are that they are so insanely bad that even in the early game they are mostly not worth using, especially if you're not using mods, because of how fast it is to get electricity running, at which point it's better to get regular inserters instead. Generally it's quick enough to hand-craft what you need in the early game, and there's thus no real need for burner inserters before electricity, especially if you have to fuel them by hand.

They currently only have 1 single use: Refuelling boilers. They only have a use here because it lets them restart the power grid when normal inserters run out. But it's mostly moot anyway because the only reason a boiler array would run out completely so that inserters no longer work is if your boilers all run out of coal anyway, meaning there's none on your coal belt, and losing power would prevent your miners from mining more, rendering the burner inserters useless anyway.

Honestly, I think burner tech would be more interesting if it did have some more usefulness, so that clever players could use it for some niche use cases. For instance, if we could hook up burner mining drills to the circuit network, we could have backup backup coal miners which, combined with burner inserters, could essentially jump start coal power automatically.

BUT, I think the OP's suggestion is pointless anyway, because burner inserters already effectively refuel themselves when fuel is available. Allowing bots to refuel when building them is neat, but in most cases their entire value comes from situations where you have fuel but no power, where they will refuel themselves anyway.

[shopt]

I mostly argee with others. This is a niche failure mode for a niche item. I don't think I've even built burner inserters after my first game, even during extreme early game they are barely an improvement over hand feeding.

Even for boilers where everyone loves them, I don't see the point. The coal miners running out of electricity is a far bigger problem than the boiler inserters. If you can't keep electricity up to your coal miners, then burner inserters wont save you, and if you can keep electricity up to your coal miners then burner inserters aren't needed.

I wouldn't be against this change if it magically appeared for free, I just think there are so many ways the devs effort could be better spent.

[sarge945]

Honestly, I feel like the best way to make burner inserters useful would be to make them a required ingredient in yellow inserters, exactly how yellow inserters are a required ingredient for blue inserters, although this is admittedly quite boring. Outside of that, even for their intended purpose they are mostly worthless.

I have a question for everyone else here, which is mildly off-topic so I apologise and I don't mean to derail the thread, I'm just curious: If you could make burner inserters truly useful, how would you go about it?

[shopt]

If you could make burner inserters truly useful, how would you go about it?

The things I can come up with is that it gets some sort of speed bonus from fuel like vehicles do. A nuclear powered burner inserter ends up being the fastest in the game. Maybe combined with them just slowing to a crawl if they run out of fuel (like bots) instead of requiring manual refueling.

(to be clear I don't think this is a good idea, just the only way I can think to make burner inserters useful).

And then there's bringing in some of the extra abilities some modded inserters have (though limiting this to burner inserters would make no sense):
* Can pick which side of the belt to output to
* Can do angles other than 180 degrees
* Maybe can reach 3 tiles?

[PennyJim]

And then there's bringing in some of the extra abilities some modded inserters have (though limiting this to burner inserters would make no sense):
* Can pick which side of the belt to output to
* Can do angles other than 180 degrees
* Maybe can reach 3 tiles?

That to me sounds like a higher tier burner. In the same vein that more powerful machines irl are gas guzzlers, burners just have that bit more oomph to reach 3 tiles (or choose how many tiles for pickup and drop-off independently)

That doesn't so much make burners useful, but brings their mechanics to later game

[shopt]

I just don't think there is a way to make them useful in early game without pushing yellow inserters up the tech tree. Once I have my first working steam engine there is no reason to place a burner. Even before then it's still not worth the resources and hassle of setting up burner inserters given how quickly yellow inserters become useable. Miners mine directly into boxes and furnaces. Hand feeding is viable for the short pre-electricity game.

[Danjen]

The only time I really use burner inserters is to put three or four of them with my boilers, so that if I have a power failure, they can grab a few pieces of coal and restart the machine