Friday Facts #425 - Behind the legs

[Molay]

That fixed version looks amazing. I didn't mind the the new version before, more of a whatever, I like both, but this is really better now imo.

[Avalanche]

If you look closely at the last few seconds of the video, you see this was actually improved a bit.

Is it?

Hold on...

Yeah, I *think* there is a reduction in how pronounced the camera move is. It is very trippy watching two spidertrons walking side-by-side again and again and again trying to compare, but it took me that long to see a difference. I guess it took a lot to make that change is general, so it is possible to change it, but I also guess the issue is that the specific reduction in camera jitter wasn't the actual intent/goal. Unintended issue and now unintended improvement. I wonder if that change would make a difference though. I *really* hope for an improvement here.

[wizcreations]

I don't like how legs in the Spidertron's new animation stretch all the way during a regular walk sideways (on the screen). The original looked somewhat orderly, while the new looks a bit funky to me, creeps me out a bit, to be honest.

+1
I don't think it is creepy, but the new Spidertron walking no longer looks like an orderly machine. It looks like an engineer got lazy.

[Mycroft4114]

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

This version does indeed look much better. It alleviates my concerns regarding the "stretch vs bend" movement I posted about earlier. (I'd still like to see it more stretchy, but we'd probably have to see it go over some bigger obstacles for that.)

[wizcreations]

I don't like how legs in the Spidertron's new animation stretch all the way during a regular walk sideways (on the screen). The original looked somewhat orderly, while the new looks a bit funky to me, creeps me out a bit, to be honest.

+1
I don't think it is creepy, but the new Spidertron walking no longer looks like an orderly machine. It looks like an engineer got lazy.

Wow. I read more of the comments in this thread. Does anyone like the new leg movement animation? Appears not.

[Mango]

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

I also wanted to comment on how the new animation is worse, but this looks good.
I think it would be a good idea to replace it in the FFF.

[Jan5366x]

I love that you guys tried to improve it, but sadly I have to say that I also strongly prefer the old spidertron animation because it way more smooth. (alien animation looks fine)

EDIT: Oh this version was with a bug .. yes than pls replace the video ... the CDN link looks way better

[Ohz]

Besides, it's about time I check on my Vulcanus factory. I've been getting a bunch of alerts from there, so I sure hope nothing is disrupting my foundries...

The tease is there !!

[go_away]

I think spidertron's new legs look a little worse. The legs closer to the camera seem to be more inclined to the ground than those at the back, which makes the entire spidertron appear tilted. Additionally, when walking, they seem to stick into the ground at a very strange angle. I think the old look was more suited to the perspective. But lest I only complain, I admire your work and I can't wait for the release of the expansion.

[The Phoenixian]

I think I agree that the old Spidertron movement looks better. Works great for the Pentapods, doesn't look nearly as good on a robot. It's kind of twitchy and jerky. It's lost some of what made mechanical and cool.

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

Okay yeah, that is much improved. It has it's "marching spider" aesthetic back instead of...whatever was going on with the lower legs.

[Daneel_]

I think I agree that the old Spidertron movement looks better. Works great for the Pentapods, doesn't look nearly as good on a robot. It's kind of twitchy and jerky. It's lost some of what made mechanical and cool.

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

This is gorgeous, beautiful work.

[bnrom]

It is really cool stuff overall! I'm so looking forward to the expansion! and really impressed by the continued quality, and thoughtfulness behind the design and implementation of everything.

Two minor points:

1. I don't love the new Spidertron animation (even the fixed smooth version), as compared to the old.

I think I agree that the old Spidertron movement looks better. Works great for the Pentapods, doesn't look nearly as good on a robot. It's kind of twitchy and jerky. It's lost some of what made mechanical and cool.

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

First, there are these strange tiny steps at the end. They look weird to me, and very unnatural. Second, it looks like the trailing legs (i.e., the ones on the side away from travel) are slightly too near the body. This causes the Spidertron to look like it might fall backwards; it might just be me, but it doesn't seem like a stable or balanced gait.

2. My other feedback, is that the missile enemies seem like they are begging to be targeted mid flight (maybe with some significant damage reduction, so that shooting them down is hard / untenable for the most evolved enemies until the uber late game).

Other than those minor feedbacks, it all looks amazing!
I particularly liked the video of the fight v.s. the harder enemies - all those incoming wrigglers missiles fired from the Strafer looked overwhelming, intense and really fun!

[ZavodZ]

I also love the Behind-The-Scenes aspects of the FFF. (I used to be a game developer in an earlier life.)
I frequently email them to a friend who I play Factorio with online, and we look forward to a LOT of the new features.

I find myself NOT looking forward to the new enemies that much. (I don't mind them, but, hear me out...)

I look at my friend and I for two different styles of play:
He LOVES attacking enemy bases. (and gets killed a lot)
I DISLIKE attacking enemy bases. (because I dislike getting killed a lot)

So as long as I can still turret-creep. Or deploy artillery and related defenses. Then I'll be happy.

Play-style, I effectively NEVER use grenades and the tank. Why? Because those things involve getting close to enemies. If I have to engage, I like missiles. Oh, and in SE I like the Bloat Burst ammo. I organize my inventory for building efficiently, not for fighting. As a result I'm not great at the fighting.

Ironically, I prefer playing WITH biters. I've tried turning them off, and that's less fun.

[GregoriusT]

I also love the Behind-The-Scenes aspects of the FFF. (I used to be a game developer in an earlier life.)
I frequently email them to a friend who I play Factorio with online, and we look forward to a LOT of the new features.

I find myself NOT looking forward to the new enemies that much. (I don't mind them, but, hear me out...)

I look at my friend and I for two different styles of play:
He LOVES attacking enemy bases. (and gets killed a lot)
I DISLIKE attacking enemy bases. (because I dislike getting killed a lot)

So as long as I can still turret-creep. Or deploy artillery and related defenses. Then I'll be happy.

Play-style, I effectively NEVER use grenades and the tank. Why? Because those things involve getting close to enemies. If I have to engage, I like missiles. Oh, and in SE I like the Bloat Burst ammo. I organize my inventory for building efficiently, not for fighting. As a result I'm not great at the fighting.

Ironically, I prefer playing WITH biters. I've tried turning them off, and that's less fun.

Bad at fighting? Try Defender Capsules!
Bad at killing Nests? Try Distractor Capsules!
Bad at killing Worms? Try Poison Capsules!
Bad at killing Trees? Try Grenades!
Bad at getting to places? Drive a Tank through all the Trees and Rocks with Cliff Explosives in hand, and there wont be any obstacle in your way!


As for the attack patterns of the new Gleba Enemies, I guess they just straight up ignore your entire Factory and walk directly to the Biochambers and Farms that cause their Allergies to flare up, so you will only need to defend those specific Machines.

[Hammerchief]

While I was fond of the leg stretching being somewhat cute janky solution, I very much like how now the "knee" moves more realistically, rotating around the "hip" instead of just sliding in one horizontal plane.

[mmmPI]

The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

I like this animation ! Maybe it could be added/edited to the first post of this thread. It's wild how tiny differences creates vastly different perceptions. This is precision work x).

Happy to read about the optimization in spidertron's footwork. Make sense to do before it is applied to potentially many ennemies. I feel the pictures used to illustrate the algo are the kind of which you see one time and then you keep in mind easily for acting accordingly in the game. And the geometric shape, it really feel like looking at behind the scenes, seeing more than usually , like the strings of a puppet show.

I thought 5 legged creatures was only a joke, but i like the way they act together to move a single body, it looks very organic and as a single entity.

Discontiguous pathfinding will be available via the modding API in Factorio 2.0, even though nothing in the base game currently makes use of it.

Somehow i want to read "tunnels" here. Because you don't have to go above the obstacle all the time, you can also go under, for more nightmarish scenario

I'm curious to see the polluant type of the other planet now, or if it is different than in Nauvis, and also what could be done with it in mods

The video where only one leg is moved with the mouse cursor made me want to do the same. It would be fun i think if there such a thing in the game as a anatomic sculpture, or a trophy/decoration, or for testing the range of the legs when building fortifications, or to test DPS. Just being able to build a dummy stomper, and play with the legs, maybe make duo with the dj spidertron x).

When reading all the work made for the video of the previous FFF, i wonder if any of the code can/will be reused for trailers teaser, cutscene or player content, maybe the menu animation or other planets. When the camera do not follow the player it really create a cinematic effect , the moment it detach particularly if it changes zoom level at the same time.

It's wild to learn there was not someone moving the engineer during the video. It was a source of wondering like when someone drive a car without hurting a cliff or a tree for more than 5 seconds

[Phauxstus]

Each planet having it's own pollution type sounds fun
Nauvis - Biters - Pollution
Gleba - Pentapods - Pollen
Vulcanus - Rock Monsters - Vibration
Fulgora - Robot Warforms - ???
Aquilo - The Floating Brain Thing - Heat

However there is something seriously wrong with the new spidertron walk cycle. Some legs look like they're just spazzing around uselessly. I think linear pistons are universally stronger than rotational actuators, so why would the spidertron maximise knee bending over extension? Now there's less contrast between the spidertron and the pentapods.
The old one looks like the inexorable march of a murder machine, the new one looks like a daddy longlegs trying to scurry away after you doused it in bug spray.

Edit: I hadn't seen the fixed version, that's so much better! I still think maximising rotation over stretching feels wrong on the spidertron for the same reason as above, but I can live with this.

[Justderpingalong]

I really hope so. Especially since they are giving us the RTS tool. To me that implies 1. More RTS-like commands and movement expectations from your troops (I.e. pathfinding around obstacles) and 2. More than just the Spidertron to control.

"Unit reporting." "Moving out."

KIROV REPORTING (I couldn't help it)

I think I agree that the old Spidertron movement looks better. Works great for the Pentapods, doesn't look nearly as good on a robot. It's kind of twitchy and jerky. It's lost some of what made mechanical and cool.

So regarding the twitching/jerking: that's my bad. The video I uploaded to FFF actually contained a bug that was later fixed, but I had forgotten this fact at time of writing. If you're curious what the Spidertron movement looks like now, I uploaded it here: https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blo ... smooth.mp4

Holy hell that is SO much better than the bugged version, and it's something that looks actually okay.

[mmmPI]

Each planet having it's own pollution type sounds fun
Fulgora - Robot Warforms - ???

Thunder !

[Hares]

Each planet having it's own pollution type sounds fun
Fulgora - Robot Warforms - ???

Thunder !

Or Tempest. It will be rising.