Friday Facts #424 - Gleba Pentapod Enemies

[malecord]

It also tells me that players will have no agency, no way to change that if they want to play a different way, just as you don't have any agency to change the way you deal with their new spoilage mechanic.

What is wrong here guys? It's a supermoddable game. Everyone will find a way to mod out stuff that it doesn't like. Probably the devs themselves will create such mods for the stuff that is most requrested. I'm sure there will be mods that disable spoilage, mods that replaces pentapods with furry pups and mods that makes everything be legendary quality.

But at the end of the day there must be 1 version of the game that is the reference one, where all stuff can be tested, balance, and the game experience polshed. It's in the nature of things, I think everyone can at least understand this.

[Koub]

What is wrong here guys?

Today, we're in the era of drama. People can't just not like something, tell what they dislike, and move along. There needs to be rivers of blood tears, yelling that the game will be #literally unplayable, threaten that some people might not want to buy a game if it's not 100% tailored to their needs, ...

[Tertius]

Today, we're in the era of drama.

Suddenly it becomes clear before my eyes, as if some purple cloud is lifting, why marihuana has been legalized in some countries in the last years.

[PrinceDest1ny]

Bug biter swarms, starfish strafer hordes, constant lightning storms, why the hell did we choose this system again?

Fantastic time to discover both my trypophobia and my arachnophobia

But I mean... SEND IN THE HELLDIVERS

[MeduSalem]

Bug biter swarms, starfish strafer hordes, constant lightning storms, why the hell did we choose this system again?

Because the brave are not who never feel fear but who choose to conquer it.


Or some motivational stuff like that. ^^

[Terrahertz]

What is wrong here guys?

Today, we're in the era of drama. People can't just not like something, tell what they dislike, and move along. There needs to be rivers of blood tears, yelling that the game will be #literally unplayable, threaten that some people might not want to buy a game if it's not 100% tailored to their needs, ...

The funny part is: First you had a whole drama about the devs removing "The Challenge" by reworking the fluid system and now you have drama about the devs adding a new challenge, a designed challenge btw not something esoteric originating from technical limitations.

And I know these are two different groups, but I imagine they get along pretty well, as they can agree on: "The game is going in the wrong direction".

I would also guess a lot of the people who want refrigerators, would not be happy if those refrigerators just extend the lifetime of items by a bit. For some people anything that is not rendering the mechanic pointless will not be enough.

[Saphira123456]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

Personally, given the current history of Gleba's lack of player agency, I suspect the people that insisted on player agency (the people who said you could choose the order in which to go to different planets, for example) were all fired well before development of Gleba began. With potentially different people running under the same usernames.

As a matter of fact, we can most likely consider everything the devs say these days, to be suspect to change in ways that removes player agency and choice even further. Including reversions of statements in all previous FFFs. Because that's the way they seem to be going.

[Terrahertz]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

Personally, given the current history of Gleba's lack of player agency, I suspect the people that insisted on player agency (the people who said you could choose the order in which to go to different planets, for example) were all fired well before development of Gleba began. With potentially different people running under the same usernames.

As a matter of fact, we can most likely consider everything the devs say these days, to be suspect to change in ways that removes player agency and choice even further. Including reversions of statements in all previous FFFs. Because that's the way they seem to be going.

Well buddy, it's now two months until we (hopefully) can get our hands on the Expansion. So we just have to wait a little bit longer until either you can say "Told'ya" or I can cite your comment and say "Aged like Milk"

[GregoriusT]

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

Personally, given the current history of Gleba's lack of player agency, I suspect the people that insisted on player agency (the people who said you could choose the order in which to go to different planets, for example) were all fired well before development of Gleba began. With potentially different people running under the same usernames.

As a matter of fact, we can most likely consider everything the devs say these days, to be suspect to change in ways that removes player agency and choice even further. Including reversions of statements in all previous FFFs. Because that's the way they seem to be going.

Adding Puzzles that are supposed to make the Game less repetitive, does not have anything to do with removing player agency, literally ONLY removing the ability to store one specific type of thing for a long time is not THAT much, especially since that thing is Infinite and therefore cannot be wasted.

And extrapolating so much that you think all the actually fun choices will be removed is quite the exaggeration, especially the thinking of the Devs being replaced by literal Imposters Amongoose Style.

[PrinceDest1ny]

They need to add a dash mechanic to this game

[Saphira123456]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

Personally, given the current history of Gleba's lack of player agency, I suspect the people that insisted on player agency (the people who said you could choose the order in which to go to different planets, for example) were all fired well before development of Gleba began. With potentially different people running under the same usernames.

As a matter of fact, we can most likely consider everything the devs say these days, to be suspect to change in ways that removes player agency and choice even further. Including reversions of statements in all previous FFFs. Because that's the way they seem to be going.

Well buddy, it's now two months until we (hopefully) can get our hands on the Expansion. So we just have to wait a little bit longer until either you can say "Told'ya" or I can cite your comment and say "Aged like Milk"

We can only hope that my comment ages that badly. My thinking is either that it's either "told ya" (worst case) or halfway between "told 'ya" and "aged like milk" (middle case).

Best case would be that they somehow make enemies optional AND add refrigeration so that we can indeed do what we want with the products of Gleba. We both know that that's not happening.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

Personally, given the current history of Gleba's lack of player agency, I suspect the people that insisted on player agency (the people who said you could choose the order in which to go to different planets, for example) were all fired well before development of Gleba began. With potentially different people running under the same usernames.

As a matter of fact, we can most likely consider everything the devs say these days, to be suspect to change in ways that removes player agency and choice even further. Including reversions of statements in all previous FFFs. Because that's the way they seem to be going.

Adding Puzzles that are supposed to make the Game less repetitive, does not have anything to do with removing player agency, literally ONLY removing the ability to store one specific type of thing for a long time is not THAT much, especially since that thing is Infinite and therefore cannot be wasted.

And extrapolating so much that you think all the actually fun choices will be removed is quite the exaggeration, especially the thinking of the Devs being replaced by literal Imposters Amongoose Style.

First off, this is the first puzzle I've seen this game have, like at all. The "struggle to make things fit" really never existed for me, and still doesn't. When someone says "puzzle" my mind goes to jigsaw puzzles and certain other types of video games that have nothing at all to do with Factorio.

And technically, that "one specific thing" for spoilage is actually "almost everything produced on Gleba". Because unless I am mistaken - and I don't think I am, because this was in an FFF - everything produced from Gleba's organic products have a spoilage timer attached.

As for the devs being replaced, it's not hard at all to hire a new person and hire them to a job without changing the previous person's username. You likely don't know these devs and have never met them in person. They're anonymous.

It's not Imposters Amongoose Style. Realistically in that scenario, all the crewmembers in Among Us would have known each other for years so the imposter would be screened out. Astronauts in a crew are together in person so often and for so long that they become more like a family or otherwise extremely close to one another. They're more than friends, but not real family. A "brother from another mother/sister from another mister" situation is the best way to describe it.

Point is, unlike the things that would realistically need to happen for the situation in Among Us to become real, in this case it's not like someone replaced a member of your family or someone you see a lot of in person. In the real world everything on the internet is already anonymous. And that's how we all know these developers, through the internet, not in person.

[GregoriusT]

And technically, that "one specific thing" for spoilage is actually "almost everything produced on Gleba". Because unless I am mistaken - and I don't think I am, because this was in an FFF - everything produced from Gleba's organic products have a spoilage timer attached.

I also remember Plastic being made from Gleba stuff, and that does NOT spoil.

The only spoilable end product, where it makes sense to actually carry and transport it offsite, will likely be the Science Pack and nothing else.

[mmmPI]

We can only hope that my comment ages that badly. My thinking is either that it's either "told ya" (worst case) or halfway between "told 'ya" and "aged like milk" (middle case).

Some of your comments about "why can't they make everything on Nauvis" have already aged badly, just considering the pollution system being different on Gleba as was revealed on this FFF.

I am confident it will be the case for all of them.

[Saphira123456]

And technically, that "one specific thing" for spoilage is actually "almost everything produced on Gleba". Because unless I am mistaken - and I don't think I am, because this was in an FFF - everything produced from Gleba's organic products have a spoilage timer attached.

I also remember Plastic being made from Gleba stuff, and that does NOT spoil.

The only spoilable end product, where it makes sense to actually carry and transport it offsite, will likely be the Science Pack and nothing else.

Technically you want to transport most products in this game off-site.

When it comes to transporting things off-planet, I would agree with you, but it makes more sense to have a big area for farming and a small area for processing. Transporting raw-but-quickly-spoiling materials to a clear spot where you can actually build a decent-sized base without knocking down too many trees, which is a pain in the butt even on Nauvis.

That long-distance transport pretty much requires long-distance travel back to your LZ where things are already somewhat clear. And that requires refrigeration, or at least some form of preservation.

We can only hope that my comment ages that badly. My thinking is either that it's either "told ya" (worst case) or halfway between "told 'ya" and "aged like milk" (middle case).

Some of your comments about "why can't they make everything on Nauvis" have already aged badly, just considering the pollution system being different on Gleba as was revealed on this FFF.

I am confident it will be the case for all of them.

No, I still firmly believe that they could have implemented everything on Nauvis. The pollution system may be different here, but that doesn't mean it couldn't all be done on Nauvis.

And by the way, when I say everything, I mean that literally: Everything, including the new biomes, the volcanoes and lava, the weather effects, the decayed cities, etcetera. Everything, in all these FFFs, could have been done on Nauvis.

For example, if properly implemented players could research ways to genetically engineer trees as renewable high-pollution-absorption filters (Gleba trees), which could then be used to form an anti-pollution barrier around factories on Nauvis. Once they've gulped down enough pollution and grown to the proper stage, these trees would bear fruit which we could then harvest along with the wood.

This is possible because trees on Nauvis already suck up pollution, and there's no difference with that here. The only difference between Nauvis and Gleba is how much pollution is already in the air, being sucked up by Gleba trees.

This ties back into my point about the developers wanting us to play a certain way: Our inability to do as I stated is purely a coding issue, and a "developers don't want you to play that way" issue, not a mechanics issue.

Speaking of which, if what I'm stating here were implemented, the changes to the pollution system on Gleba could have been eliminated, saving the developers a lot of wasted time. Months, potentially.

This means we could have had the expansion a lot sooner, and interest in Factorio wouldn't be consumed in a non-renewable manner by competing games which are also releasing major updates around the same time, like Satisfactory.

That being said, I can already see most if not all of these issues being resolved by mods in the future, presuming the developers don't scrap those too. I wouldn't put it past them, despite one of the developers being a former modder.

[mmmPI]

No, I still firmly believe that they could have implemented everything on Nauvis.

I can understand your mind didn't change and you repeat mostly the same things again, but i think the many comments you say on this topic aged badly already nonetheless because to me the pollution system makes it even more clear that the different planet will be different planets. I think it sound much better than your idea with trees, which sound not convinving to say the least.

[Svip]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

So you are going off vibes? Considering the history of alien artefacts, the fact that enemies can be entirely disabled in the current game settings, and the fact that they made it the rafts, i.e. not the enemies, that yield the key ingredient; all of this suggests to me that they have learnt from their alien artefact mistake, and found a solution that can work with enemies entirely disabled.

[Saphira123456]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

So you are going off vibes? Considering the history of alien artefacts, the fact that enemies can be entirely disabled in the current game settings, and the fact that they made it the rafts, i.e. not the enemies, that yield the key ingredient; all of this suggests to me that they have learnt from their alien artefact mistake, and found a solution that can work with enemies entirely disabled.

I'm going off the development of the current expansion. My main example is their reasoning behind the lack of refrigeration or preservation technology, which according to the very FFF that introduced Gleba, was precisely because they wanted to force us to play a specific way.

The lack of refrigeration is designed to force us to keep our bases small and compact, with minimal transportation. Those are pretty near their exact words.

It's not "vibes" telling me that they want to force us into a given playstyle. It's their exact words on other matters that similarly involve forcing us to play a given way.

[mmmPI]

My main example is their reasoning behind the lack of refrigeration or preservation technology

I think that's a very bad example to talk about on this FFF since there is another FFF only about your main example where you already said the same things. It look like you forget to move on.

[Svip]

Considering that it's the egg rafts - and not any of the actual enemies themselves - that deliver the key ingredient, turning off the enemies would be a trivial feature to implement here; just leave the egg rafts, that then don't spawn an enemy when they otherwise would have, but merely yield pentapod eggs when destroyed.

As previously mentioned, I doubt they'll implement it even if it is trivial. Because they seem to be extremely keen on forcing us to play a highly specific way.

So you are going off vibes? Considering the history of alien artefacts, the fact that enemies can be entirely disabled in the current game settings, and the fact that they made it the rafts, i.e. not the enemies, that yield the key ingredient; all of this suggests to me that they have learnt from their alien artefact mistake, and found a solution that can work with enemies entirely disabled.

I'm going off the development of the current expansion.

For that logic to make sense, the developers would be disagreeing with their own previous decision to introduce a setting to turn off enemies entirely in the base game. It's not unusual for developers to backtrack on decisions, like they did with alien artefacts, but if they truly believe that enemies are a necessary experience of Factorio, why not patch out the option to remove enemies, and leave that choice up to modders?

To me, the pentapod eggs are the developers' attempt at making the alien artefacts work. The mistake with the original alien artefacts were two-fold: 1) they could not be automated (a faux-pas in Factorio) and 2) they required enemies to be enabled.

Pentapod eggs solves both those issues, since the rafts themselves are not inherently enemies, and the biochamber allows the player to automate them. Under normal settings (keyword here is 'normal'), they maintain the original challenge of the alien artefacts, i.e. that they were dangerous to obtain, unlike all the other resources (save the consequence of pollution).

In truth, the alien artefacts' problem could probably have been solved with a building akin to the biochamber, and simply maintain spawners on the map, that did not spawn enemies when enemies are disabled. But being able to produce them would have sounded antithetical to the concept of artefacts.

[Tertius]

It's not "vibes" telling me that they want to force us into a given playstyle. It's their exact words on other matters that similarly involve forcing us to play a given way.

The devs explained they wanted to open different play styles where there was currently only one, for example with the beacon change in FFF #409. By slightly nerfing the current style (12 beacon setups) and buffing other styles (the less beacons the more buff) they're opening the field to many different equally efficient factory designs.
However, they never ever said they want to force some play style. I'm pretty sure of this. If I'm mistaken, please provide a quote from the corresponding FFF or wherever that is supposed to have been.

If it comes to the spoilage mechanics, it's just a mechanics that puts some constraint upon its usage as challenge. Just like that you have to research oil and find an oil resource field to be able to proceed with all oil-dependent technology. That's also some constraint.

An example for forced gameplay with spoilage: Material spoils so fast that there's only one way to build a factory to consume this material. It's forced if you only succeed, if you use stack inserters, the new 60/s belts and speed beacons in the corresponding production line. This would force every player build the same production line, otherwise fruit spoils before it even reaches the assembling machine. This is how other game implement challenges: they're designed so difficult or so constrained that every player can came up with just one and the same solution and no other solution will work.

I'm pretty sure spoilage time isn't that tight. Instead, I bet it is long enough to build any factory design you like - on Gleba. But not long enough to transport the item through space. This is the challenge: build some part of your factory on the remote planet. You have every freedom to build that factory the way you like, as long as it is on Gleba. In my opinion a valid and interesting challenge.

About your claim devs have been secretly replaced to enforce some development direction: please get real.