Friday Facts #420 - Fusion Reactor

[Chaoseed]

Oh hey, that portable fusion reactor is totally "Mr. Fusion" from Back to the Future.

[Terrahertz]

So the functionality of the fusion generator i.e. Turning one fluid into another while generating electricity, can be used by something like Space Exploration Condenser Turbine right?

Will there be something like a plasma heat exchanger? I alsways liked using nuclear power to generate steam for coal liquification, because the fuel is so cheap in comparison. Might be nice here too.

[mmmPI]

Nice !

I think it was to be expected that there would be something higher tier than fission nuclear for energy, to match the growing scale of the factory, but only now, and i was suprised to see it

Such machines with their own puzzle rules attached and mechanic to explore is much to my liking ! Doing it for energy production makes total sense to me, it was already the case with nuclear power plant, and this seem to me a continuation for later game. Good because not requiring much fluid to produce lot of energy with plasma being densier than steam, which for UPS is very good, and oh wait, no this doesn't apply anymore, the new fluid system is good for UPS anyway and makes junction "unimportant" which i see as an enabler for such complex fluid puzzle

Many mods had a take on this, and i find it great for the general balance of the game that an official version is made for late game energy also because it means nuclear is not meant as the late game one anymore, so i feel like in the future this one will be modded a lot, ( say to make it harder of a challenge) , to make up for nuclear being simpler to deal with.

I like the idea that the tileable build (4 neighbours) doesn't allow reaching the same "max" bonus than with a non-tileable build (5 neighbours), i think it will play nicely with quality, opening question about which one's cheaper or more powerfull when considering using a legendary one surrounded by low quality, or having average quality everywhere.

I don't think it would be super-safe IRL to design a fusion reactor with a glass containment chamber, or one that let us see the pink plasma when it is active but i like the contrast it makes with the water and the grey reactor while keeping the "orange" for the glowing heat pipe. I think it looks great on Gleba with the little purple puddle of water, pollution ? natural color of water ? and the little wavelets near the edge of the water aren't they new ?
I'm easily distracted sometimes it's hard to keep in mind everything from those hum 420 FFF but this has been hinted at several time :

4th new planet, nuclear becomes a much better option because the solar power is so low and ice is more abundant

And it's growing on me ! Isn't the 4rth planet Aquilo ? the name that was on the music sheet on the FFF where there was a picture of a music sheet, with the name Aquilo ? That would totally be fitting the roman for Borea the greek god of winter , and cold north wind. I imagine it like the planet UV-6 from the chronicles of Riddick, the one covered with ice where the sun barely reaches.

Also, there was no mention of pollution in the FFF, i find it related to the question of which power sources to use. I wouldn't want to use a polluting source on Gleba, more like biomass or based on renewable fuel, so i suppose , similar to nuclear fission, the fusion doesn't create pollution. I suppose another FFF will explain how to make the power cell for those reactors. Those for nuclear can be source of pollution and also a challenge on their own to make. Curious to see what's next and always happy to read a new FFF !

[vipm23]

I'm apprehensive about how the difference in temperature will be handled; I think it would be clunky and a shame for this new coolant to be a special case where different temperatures are handled via separate fluids when the game already has fluid temperature handling built in (see: steam). The fluid changes FFF did not address temperature at all, so I assume that that math will remain unchanged.
It would also be kind of immersion breaking if you tried to connect warm and cool coolant pipes, only to be stopped by the "different fluids" error.

I agree, with the addendum that there is not only fluid temperature, but also heat pipes which interact with fission reactors exclusively.

I feel this is redundant and excessively limiting. Radiators only interact with coolant, and thus fusion reactors, and heat exchangers only interact with heat pipes and thus fission reactors. There is the possibility of an interesting set of choices between a fission and fusion reactor, and open-cycle and closed-cycle cooling, which is artificially preclosed by these segregated and self-contained systems. The two systems ought be consolidated.

Also there was a bit about nuclear needing water and space and so its not suitable on platforms: Doesnt NASA and satellites and stuff make heavy use of nuclear batteries? I guess its not the same as an onsite nuclear plant and they would have lower output anyways.
Actually, its surprising theres no emergency/portable building that takes nuclear fuel to generate power, like a generator that runs on vehicle fuel

What NASA usually uses is a Radioistope Thermoelectric Generator, which is basically a brick of plutonium, warmed by the heat of its nuclear decay, and boxed in thermocouples. The temperature difference between the thermocouple's hot end, pressed up against the plutonium, and its cold end, which has radiator fins radiating heat into space, generates electricity.

That brick could just as easily be a more powerful nuclear reactor, like SNAP-10A. And the thermocouples can be replaced by more efficient heat engines, such as Stirling engines (see Kilopower )or closed-cycle gas turbines.

In-game, fission reactors need water because the turbines they use are open-cycle--steam is always exhausted after use. One can imagine turbines instead outputting low-temperature steam, which can be exhausted in a steam engine, or recondensed in a condenser/radiator to be fed back in. Or a thermocouple which converts heat directly into electricity at a very low efficiency.

[CyberCider]

We definitely need SOME reason to harvest Uranium from Nauvis though, even if it is just a lategame Science Pack.

The new space science recipe now uses it, and it still is used for infinite technologies. It seems like they thought of it already.

[ombus]

i love this but i would love it more if the hot coolant was the same coolant and not another liquid.

maybe something like

created coolant is at normal temperature like 90c for example and provides no extra benefit, then there is coolant at -20 or some -0 number.. that provides like 25% benefit and then there is coolant at 250c+ after using it in the generator.. and needs to be cooled.. maybe twice to get the -0 or a different recipe costing more time etc..

feel like having the system in place for different liquid temperatures and not making use of it its too simple a fix..

[MeduSalem]

Ah nice. Looking forward to toying around with the puzzle. Seems like there are some more possibilities than there is with fission reactors (because that was my main disappointment with them back in the day because there is basically only 2*n setups).


But that said, I would recommend at least to include some kind of recycling chain to deal with used up Fusion fuel cells. It should not just be "throw stuff in" and never have to worry about any byproducts.

So please at least add some kind of spent fuel cell mechanic like for normal fission reactors that you have to take care of. ^^

I would even make it such that the spent fusion fuel cell would be radioactive; so you would have to reprocess it in the centrifuge.


I mean in the end it doesn't matter if you use it on the spaceplatform you can just dump the wasted cell into space. But on a planet it would be nice if you could reprocess it to get something back.

[dragon_gawain]

Love the look of the (totally not) temporary graphics for the coolant cooler!
Can't wait to have those in my game!

[nathan67003]

Surprised nobody's pointed out so far that FFF 420 is indeed blazing.

[TROPtastic]

Looks like a decent addition to the game, but it seems like it would be more player-friendly to give the fusion reactor 2 graphical rotations instead of the 1 in the dev blog. Since rotating the reactor changes which connection points are available (coolant or plasma), it would be useful to tell at a glance which orientation a reactor has without having to look at the small connection thingies.

[mrtumnus]

can we get a line-art mod looks like an old sci-fi film

Yes! I had the same thought when I saw the drawings.

[bnrom]

Is there a way to send resources to platforms that are in-between planets? E.g., if a platform runs out of fusion power cells, and becomes in-operable (and ceases all flight) then can that platform be saved? Maybe some mechanism for platform to platform resource transfer, so that you could send out another platform to, e.g., dock with the stranded one?

Sorry if this question has already been answered in a previous FFs!

[bnrom]

What is the practical reason preventing having 6 neighbors connected to a central reactor? With all the pass-through connections it looks like such a setup would be possible.

Very cool work btw! Hyped as always for the release!!

[Potipecan]

So on FFF #420 we get fusion reactors ...


I guess that counts as blazing it

[Potipecan]

What is the practical reason preventing having 6 neighbors connected to a central reactor? With all the pass-through connections it looks like such a setup would be possible.

Very cool work btw! Hyped as always for the release!!

Same problem as with fission reactors: you still need room to feed them fuel cells.

[Blaster]

On steam and temps

It would be interesting to see:

Closed-Loop Steam Turbines
Radiators

The current problem it looks like with spaceships and nuclear reactors is that the way steam generation works, it's an open cycle system. The generators vent steam when they make power. If there was a way to have the generators output water or colder steam instead of venting it, we could have a closed-loop reactor system that can recycle its water back around... maybe through heat exchangers or radiators (which probably need to overhang off the edge of the ship, making them vulnerable) that turn steam into water. You can have a closed-loop turbine as an option, and a radiator as an option, then you can have your spaceship be fission powered. Will it take a lot of space? Well, yes, but that's the reality of nuclear powered spaceships if you don't want to use an RTG (which makes a small amount of power compared to even a solar panel).

[meganothing]

Hopefully there are some complications in the handling of coolant or fuel, otherwise using the fusion seems very ... straightforward.

Someone suggested to make usage easy at default, but getting it even more efficient (even better with the risk of breaking something) should be possible with some timing that might or might not need a small circuit network.

[Triath]

It's beautiful.

[TheKingOfFailure]

It would be cool if you added the "risky" mechanics to the fusion reactor. Kinda like overclocking a computer. It works just fine for any normal person when you simply plug it in. But for experienced players they can squeeze out a few hundred megawatts at the risk of destroying the system if done incorrectly.

[Milo_Thatch]

It's what I always imagined endgame power would be. Few entities making a lot of GW, and behaving a bit like current fission power. And it feeds into fluid 2.0 nicely (which I also love). Just how big do you want us to build? I can't wait. No water management and the new wide range of connection patterns are a nice surprise, I can't wait to try making my platform-trains and power setups compact. I like the simplicity of voiding power cells and not having to recycle them : I'd have been through that with fission already.

A few entities are added, but they add another very interesting puzzle layer : building patterns and the (interplanetary?) logistic of what must be expensive resources. I love the look of the 9GW system : a ring to rule them all, a tokamak of tokamaks. The models are gorgeous, the fact they blend together like platform storage does is very impressive. It makes me want to have that kind of technology everywhere between all buildings, as if the factory was alive and growing.

• Are fluids supposed to stay on their respective planets? I would love fluid rockets but I haven't read anything about moving fluids in space.
• Do fusion reactors require Holmium? They have the same color palette as electronic-plants and the science packs of Fulgora.
• Does the circuit overhaul means we can interact easily with reactors and their state? I'd like to know if optimizing for fuel is a bit more straightforward.

Just some tangent thoughts on power

Obviously I want to know more : is there a link between bioflux and coolant, how are fusion power cells made, why does the radiator get a dedicated FFF, what kind of energy storage are we talking about with plasma reserves, etc. I'll wait impatiently.

On (endgame) Nauvis, it raises the question of quality fission vs. normal fusion.
On platforms, it raises the question of quality solar vs. fusion. I guess it also depends on travel destinations, how fun.
On Vulcanus, Solar probably still is a no-brainer but we'll see.
Fulgora will probably be primarily balanced around lighting collectors, and their quality variants. I doubt solar, or anything else, will be as efficient. However, for endgame, you probably get tired of putting collectors everywhere, and trade efficiency for the comfort of power-dense fusion reactors.
On Gleba, I don't know. There's plenty of water, but I doubt there's any uranium. Might be the first planet where fusion just makes sense.
On the obscurity planet, solar is out, no sun means ice-only water. Maybe the only planet where fusion is a requirement?