Rocket Defense Assembling Facility

[LordFedora]

wait... hold on... i thought we where doing math for 1RDH? this is 60RDH? hold on...

336 iron smelters
146 steel smelters
297 copper smelters

and 2438 depleted oil? (i can't remember if we choose depleted as base, or 100% yield, and my roommate isn't here atm)

[DrNickDoom]

give me around 200h if gameplay in my LP and i think i can do it

would be a nice end goal

i think you would end up depleting you coal iron and copper in the 1st deposits you taped before you could place all the mines

[Executer]

Logistics bot would be the relatively easy way, granted you would need thousands of bots but it would be easier than trying to route belts. One way might be to over produce the intermediates and uses trains to move it around, and then bots to load and unload.

Your best bet would be smaller "modules" that each produce a certain portion of your RD, which you could then slap down by the thousand.

[djnekkid]

From my own calculations WRT trying a <5hr speedrun (from memory) you need:
10 refineries with the 'advanced' option
3 heavy to light crackers
20 light to petrol crackers
11 or 12 electrical diggers (coal)
6 chem plants makeing plastics

this can power 48 yellow assemblers makeing red circuits for blue circuits and modules
12 yellow assemblers makeing processing units

The red and blue circuits need 17 gray machines makeing green cicuits, but some are also needed for the module production, so somewhere between 17 and 23

This can make 1 rocket defence in about 1hr15minutes, assumeing the incomeing ore is smelted quickly enough, alongside enough crude oil. But makeing something like 1 rocket defence per minute would require something HUGE. Could be a fun challange tho

[Choumiko]

But makeing something like 1 rocket defence per minute would require something HUGE. Could be a fun challange tho

Even more "fun" would be having the 50h production graph showing 1.0/m and 3000 for the rocket defense. I guess that factory could be called stable/efficient in all regards

[djnekkid]

I've made an calculation in a spreadsheet on what is needed to create 60 speed and produktivity modules per hour.

Power
1882GigaWatts

that equals
47050 Solarpanels
13.2 million tiles

and assume there is needed a 1:1 ratio between panels and accus, and that accus need about 1/3rd of the space
4.4 million tiles

Or total of 17.5 million tiles



Further, i've 'only' calculated how much is needed for the modules, and not the rockets, and the blue+red circutis needed for the rocket defence, so the follow numbers might need to be adjusted up a few percent, roughly 3.5 to 4%

Raw products
Iron Mine + Smelters : 1643
Copper Mine + Smelters: 2967
Coal Mine for plastic: 254
Oil: 87000% (power consuption assumed one pumpjack have 300%, but all in all they were about 5% of the total powerneed)
Total 460GigaWatts

Oil Processing
Refineries 435
Heavy-Light 87
Light-Petrol 609
Plastic 203
Sulfur 6
Acid 3
Total 375GigaWatts

Circuits
Green 1093 (yellow copperwiremakers feeding into blue circuit makers)
Red 1623 (yellow ones, with one yellow makeing wire per 7 plant makeing 'reds')
Blue 620 (yellow ones)

Total of 888GigaWatts

Modules
Speed - Tier 1 - 2 - 3
180-90-45 all yellow

Efficiency - Tier 1 - 2 - 3
183-113-45

Total 92GigaWatts


So, how could this be done, I _think_ it would include large ammounts of rails and trains, not to speak of the shear size needed.
With a moduar setup that could make 1 module all in all, and in a 'central' location the rocket defences would be created.

If anyone want to see the spreadsheet, take a look at this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Just fill in the yellow cells. The spreadsheet cannot calculate how many refineries are needed, but just make sure the cell with petrol are green

[Torner]

Quite interesting factory design.
1 RDpH is a good start

@djnekkid:

I've made an calculation in a spreadsheet on what is needed to create 60 speed and produktivity modules per hour.

Power
1882GigaWatts

that equals
47050 Solarpanels

I think there are major flaws in your calculations and you are probably mixing up Gigawatts with Megawatts.

1.882 Gigawatts = 1.882.000 Megawatts = 1.882.000.000 Kilowatts
One Solar Panel produces 60 Kilowatts
1.882.000.000 / 60 = 31.366.667 Solar Panels

But since your calculations seem to be wrong too, this wont matter.

e.g.

Raw products
Iron Mine + Smelters : 1643
Copper Mine + Smelters: 2967
Coal Mine for plastic: 254
Oil: 87000% (power consuption assumed one pumpjack have 300%, but all in all they were about 5% of the total powerneed)
Total 460GigaWatts

Oil: 87.000%
assuming 300% per pumpjack
87.000% / 300% = 290 Pumpjacks
one pumpjack comsumes 90 Kilowatts which results in 290*60 = 26.100 Kilowatts = 26,1 Megawatts
Even if we add iron mines, copper mines etc. etc. this would never ever get close to 460 Gigawatts (460.000 Megawatts).


Oh and to get back to the thread itself. A fully automated factory which produces 1 rocket defense per hour is pretty amazing. Good Job done!

[djnekkid]

The mega vs giga is obvously a mistake, lets just say 1,9gigawatts instead

One solarpanel does not produce 60kw, they produce 42kw as an average over the day, and i calculated with 40kw.

But take a look at the spreadsheet i posted. All the calculations are there, with power on the top.
I found a flaw in the powerdepartment tho, i didn't calulate the needed power to keep the accumulators full at night, so the solar plant actually needs to be about twice as big

I had calculated about 23,5megawatts on the pumpjacks, 22,9 on the coal, 148 on the ironmines and 267 on the copper.

All this is to let 90 yellow assemblers run at all time, produceing 50/50 pink and blue modules.

I'm, about 24hours into a game now, and i'm currently building up to the needed machines and such

Other then this, I _think_ my calculations are correct

[Torner]

Yes i read your spreadsheet and did a spreadsheet too (old fashioned in an Excel).
Found a couple of hints in your spreadsheet so thanks for that

Since you wrote you already built up to the machines and such i assume you are in for the challenge of 60 RDpH?
I hope to see some more guys joining in. I will post my base if i've completed the challenge. I'm now ~140 hours into the current game. And all i can say is: It is all about the ressources. I'm playing with just the Basic mod so nothing Special or fancy for Support.

[Marconos]

Let's up the ante .... do that with Biters set to one below max and large size. You can leave the resources at normal. Oh, and do it with mostly coal power generation instead of solar .......

[daniferrito]

The first thing i thougth when seeing this thread was: 1 Rocket defense each hour? What would it take to keep an assembler making rocket defenses full time?

My dissapointment came when i read that a rocket defense only takes 0.5 seconds to craft, and takes a total of 450 items to craft. That will be a problem to input. Using inventory to inventory inserters, you are able to insert irems 5 times as fast, but that is still not enough to keep it fed fast enough.

My next goal was to simply find the way to feed an assembler components as fast as possible, and dessign a factory able to keep that assembler feeded.

Finding maximum feeding for the assembler

That means each defense take a bit less than 4.2 seconds to be crafted.

Next step is calculating how many of each resource I need to make that possible:

Calculating the cost of each rocket defense

As you can see, it takes about three times as much iron and copper to make it that the game suggests, as it doesent show the reagents needed for the Processing Units.
Actually, without the modules, the cost goes down to 3050 iron, 4900 copper, 550 coal and 1725 Petroleum Gas. Just a bit of loose change compared to the real cost.

With a batch of those getting done each 4.2 seconds, you need a lot of assemblers, furnaces and chemical plants:

Assemblers, furnaces and chemical plants

About 121k furnaces (either steel or electric), 72k Assemblers and 2100 Chemical plants. This is without counting all the oil extration or processing, or the drills (130k drills)

That totals to an electric consumption of 51.8GW, still not taking into consideration oil pumps, refineries or chemical plants for cracking.

With each solar pannel having a real output of (60kW*(0.5+0.2))=42kW, feeding this monstruosity would take a grand total of 1234k solar panels, and 1036k accumulators, or alternably, 102k Steam engines and 143k Boilers, but that would consume 6475 extra coal each second, almost doubling the necessary coal.

Assuming a compact design needs a 6*3 space for electric furnaces, 4*3 for mining drills, 6.5*3 for assembly machines, 2*2 for accumulators and 3*3 for solar panels, the total area required is 20.3 million square tiles, with approximatelly 75% of that area being taken by solar panels/accumulators. To put that into contrast, a single locomotive train would take 4 and a half minutes to go around such facility.It would probably need to be about 20% to 40% bigger to accomodate for all the belts, trains and power poles taking things around.


Finally, to build the factory itself, you need the machines. Leaving out power poles and belts (which might add a bit more time), and with all the assembling perfectly organized, my theoretic factory would take about 7.7 minutes to build itself (or a copy of itself). That pityfull factory on the first post, (at a mere 0.017 RDpM, compared to this factory 14.4 RDpM) would take four and a half days to build all the components.

So here i leave it for today. Tomorrow i might come back with measurements for optimal space usage when smelting and crafting the different components, and initial designs for the different modules that will make that factory (right now i only have the last one, the rocket deffense one, feeded by logistic bots)

PD: I might start a new thread so i dont take over this one.

[Bleda]

are two long handed inserters really faster than one fast inserter?

[daniferrito]

Nope, exactly the same speed, but it allows me to have a bit more variety when filling the assembler. Plus it allows me to put an extra assembler in the output.

I tested both things, and double long handed got 14.4 RDpM to fast inserters, which was at only 12 RDpM. With fast inserters, two of the inserters were useless, as i could take them away and the speed would remain constant. With long handed, i beliee two of them are also not needed, but that gains me one and a half fast inserters on speed.

[Bleda]

interesting...

have you tried using a combination of fast an long-handed? you can place a long handed inserter in front of a fast one. then you need a belt that puts items on the edge of the long-handed inserters tile, so the fast one can grab it. in the middle positions, this won't work, of course, since there's no space for the belt. but doing this 8 time might still get you quite a boost.

just an idea, I haven't tried.


edit: of course this will not be faster, since the stack size bonus gets lost. forget about it

[Torner]

Here is my calculation for a factory that is capable of 60 rocket defenses per hour:

RDpH.png (47.55 KiB) Viewed 9279 times

The "Multiplier" is set to 60 for 60 rocket defenses per hour. And max production time is set to 3600 seconds of course (1hrs = 3600sec).
The results like how many of each building type is needed are at the bottom of the Picture + their power consumption calculated with 2x Speed modules3 for each building (Assuming all pumpjacks are depleted and produce 0,1/s). The results in the grey boxes show the power consumption and needed solar panles if each pumpjack is surrounded by 12 beacons each with only Speed modules 3. This decreases the number of needed pumpjacks but massively increases the amount of needed solar Panels.

[Marconos]

I finished my current map challenge (no solar, no accumulators, no lasers) with very high bugs. Was great fun but now on to what I think is a bigger challenge.

I'm going to try and see how close I can get to a RDF of 10 / hour to start. Depending on how that goes I may go larger.

Map settings that I am using
Iron/Copper/Coal/Oil -- Very Few / Very Large / Very Rich --- I will need a lot of resources and enough room to place the factory. Goal is to get enough patches of large enough size to be worthy of large mining operations. I am debating doing this with all coal power as well and no solar panels, that is not locked down yet. I may not be using laser turrets either, but that depends on how things go.
Stone -- standard settings
Biters -- All maxed but standard for richness. -- I believe this is needed to have enough nests to get the artifacts that are required for the Rocket defenses.

Process that I will be following
1. Standard factory to unlock all research.
2. Convert that factory to build the true Rocket Defense factory.
3. Build Rocket Defense factory

Simple nothing to it .......... ya right, I'm actually not sure it's possible with the number of trains that will be needed etc.

Some production items that I will most likely be using
1. Electric furnace -80% power
2. Electric miners -80% power
3. No Lasers, Solar or Accumulators (debating on this one as it may make it too difficult with the increased resource requirements)
4. Oil production will be running Prod level 3's in all refineries and Chemical plants with +50% speed from beacons on all chemical plants. This is going to be a huge power drain but I believe that will be offset as I think Oil will be the hardest resource to acquire properly.
5. Setup a 10 RDPH factory (in stages)
6. Once that is completed determine if I want to shoot for a 60 RDPH factory.

Map String I'm trying:
>>>AAALAA0AAAABAwYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEFBAoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQUECQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBAoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlBQUCCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQUEBQAAAHN0b25lAwMCv3Sb5PERAADtJwAAAAAAAAAAAA
AFABtnAn4=<<<


Looking for any suggestions or feedback on how to handle things. My biggest concern is the oil processing and water needs for everything. Based on my calculations, the power needed for the Miners(modded) / Furnaces(modded) / oil (pre mod) is going to be 2900 Steam engines and 40600 boilers (10 engines to 14 boilers model). I'm going to need to find a massive lake to get the water that I need to handle this power generation.

[kel]

NOTE:
===========
power requirement calculations will probably be off as they do not account of insterters, logistic bot charging, lamps(the comsume suprisingly much) and defenses

[Alekthefirst]

I'm Joining the RDH challenge!!!
darn, i need to expand first

current progress

for scale: thoses line above the copper field northeast to the starting point is an array of 156 furnaces, with dual-fast-belts with both fast and long inserters, the full array is supposed to be able to feed 3 express lines

(currently no pollution, hence no biters)

[gr0mpel]

amazing idea!
the only thing that keeps me from trying this (would start with 5rdh goal) is the game performance.
my 3 modules/m factory runs at 17 fps...and i have no ambition to make it bigger since it will get worse. (no bad pc!)
how is your game fps doing?

[ssilk]

my 3 modules/m factory runs at 17 fps...and i have no ambition to make it bigger since it will get worse. (no bad pc!)
how is your game fps doing?

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... fps#p68963