Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
I suggest to add the limit for the number of a dependencies that mod can directly reference.
Suggested limit: 100.
For those who really need to have more dependencies, they can add intermediate mods to group them.
Reasoning: I don't currently see valid use case for mods like this:
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/all-the-modportal
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BestMods
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better_start
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/osm-lib-postprocess
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/zzzzzzzzz ... zzzzzzzzzz
Suggested limit: 100.
For those who really need to have more dependencies, they can add intermediate mods to group them.
Reasoning: I don't currently see valid use case for mods like this:
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/all-the-modportal
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BestMods
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better_start
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/osm-lib-postprocess
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/zzzzzzzzz ... zzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by Merssedes on Sat Aug 03, 2024 5:04 am, edited 8 times in total.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
I also stumbled over those mods. Not really sure, what to think about them.
The "all-the-modportal" sounds a bit like a leeching tool to host/store the mods somewhere else.
The "all-the-modportal" sounds a bit like a leeching tool to host/store the mods somewhere else.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
Yes! I've noticed those mods as well. They are quite a nuisance as they show up in all reverse dependencies. I want to know what mods link back to mine, so that I can check whether I need to add compatibility code. But such mods that depend on all the mods on the mod portal just make that useless.
Moreover, the dependencies of those mods don't really make sense as they depend on really everything, even on mods that haven't been updated to Factorio 1.1 (example).
Moreover, the dependencies of those mods don't really make sense as they depend on really everything, even on mods that haven't been updated to Factorio 1.1 (example).
A good mod deserves a good changelog. Here's a tutorial (WIP) about Factorio's way too strict changelog syntax!
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
Then what is the point of your limitation? If anything, it will make those mods even more spammy.Merssedes wrote: βSun Jun 30, 2024 7:26 amI suggest to add the limit for the number of a dependencies that mod can directly reference.
Suggested limit: 100.
For those who really need to have more dependencies, they can add intermediate mods to group them.
Reasoning: I don't currently see valid use case for mods like this:
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/all-the-modportal
* ---https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BestMods---
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/better_start
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/osm-lib-postprocess
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final
* https://mods.factorio.com/mod/zzzzzzzzz ... zzzzzzzzzz
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
The point is that it will not be possible to make simply copying list of all mods on mod portal, it will require more work to make and even more to automate. So legitimate mods that actually require more dependencies will do it manually once. Mods that made just to add all mod portal as dependencies, will require actual work to do. Excpetially considering that for more than 9900 dependencies (if limit will be 100) it will require at least 2 levels of dependency merging.curiosity wrote: βMon Jul 08, 2024 5:48 amThen what is the point of your limitation? If anything, it will make those mods even more spammy.Merssedes wrote: βSun Jun 30, 2024 7:26 amI suggest to add the limit for the number of a dependencies that mod can directly reference.
Suggested limit: 100.
For those who really need to have more dependencies, they can add intermediate mods to group them.
Reasoning: I don't currently see valid use case for mods like this:
<...>
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
The work of getting the list of all mods is significantly greater than the trivial work of dividing them up. It will stop no one.Merssedes wrote: βMon Jul 08, 2024 6:06 pmThe point is that it will not be possible to make simply copying list of all mods on mod portal, it will require more work to make and even more to automate. So legitimate mods that actually require more dependencies will do it manually once. Mods that made just to add all mod portal as dependencies, will require actual work to do. Excpetially considering that for more than 9900 dependencies (if limit will be 100) it will require at least 2 levels of dependency merging.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
No?..curiosity wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 12:51 amThe work of getting the list of all mods is significantly greater than the trivial work of dividing them up. It will stop no one.Merssedes wrote: βMon Jul 08, 2024 6:06 pmThe point is that it will not be possible to make simply copying list of all mods on mod portal, it will require more work to make and even more to automate. So legitimate mods that actually require more dependencies will do it manually once. Mods that made just to add all mod portal as dependencies, will require actual work to do. Excpetially considering that for more than 9900 dependencies (if limit will be 100) it will require at least 2 levels of dependency merging.
https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=20000
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
You still need to parse the result. And I didn't say it was a lot of work, I only said it was more work than dividing them up.Merssedes wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 5:44 amNo?..
https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=20000
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
If you read about https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final you see why these other mods are needed. Apparently they can be used to improve performance of other mods!
Do we prefer a handful of these mods and people depending on the ones already existing, or do we really want hundreds of them by introducing a limit of 100? I think it's better as it is compared to the alternative.
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![Idea :idea:](./images/smilies/icon_idea.gif)
Do we prefer a handful of these mods and people depending on the ones already existing, or do we really want hundreds of them by introducing a limit of 100? I think it's better as it is compared to the alternative.
They are used by other mods "legitimately" as dependencies to ensure they load last.
All reasonable programming languages that might receive JSON data can parse it. Its just a call to JSON.parse(), it's like the most trivial thing.curiosity wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 7:27 amYou still need to parse the result. And I didn't say it was a lot of work, I only said it was more work than dividing them up.Merssedes wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 5:44 amNo?..
https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=20000
My mods: Capsule Ammo | HandyHands - Automatic handcrafting | ChunkyChunks - Configurable Gridlines
Some other creations: Combinassembly Language GitHub w instructions and link to run it in your browser | 0~drain Laser
Some other creations: Combinassembly Language GitHub w instructions and link to run it in your browser | 0~drain Laser
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
I'd rather have the possibility to declare an opportunistic "load me as late as possible", falling back to the usual ordering rules to resolve conflicts.Qon wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 8:56 amIf you read about https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final you see why these other mods are needed. Apparently they can be used to improve performance of other mods!![]()
![]()
Do we prefer a handful of these mods and people depending on the ones already existing, or do we really want hundreds of them by introducing a limit of 100? I think it's better as it is compared to the alternative.
They are used by other mods "legitimately" as dependencies to ensure they load last.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
That mod itself explains that it is a terrible hack and has not been tested to ensure all the dependencies don't cause unintended effects.Qon wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 8:56 amIf you read about https://mods.factorio.com/mod/sparkletr ... mers-final you see why these other mods are needed. Apparently they can be used to improve performance of other mods!![]()
![]()
There are probably much better ways to improve the performance of the underlying mod, or there is a smaller list of mods that it actually needs to depend on/load after.
In my own mods I put a lot of effort into making sure dependencies are not required for most things, using the three data stages for the intended purposes. I did have to contact other mod authors to ask them to correct how their mod code behaved to avoid circular dependencies and such.
It would be a better experience for users if mod makers put more thought into their dependencies. Sure it would limit how much some of them contribute to the community, but that's a tradeoff we should discuss.
My mods: Multiple Unit Train Control, Smart Artillery Wagons
Maintainer of Vehicle Wagon 2, Cargo Ships, Honk
Maintainer of Vehicle Wagon 2, Cargo Ships, Honk
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
List of just names (bash code):curiosity wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 7:27 amYou still need to parse the result. And I didn't say it was a lot of work, I only said it was more work than dividing them up.Merssedes wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 5:44 amNo?..
https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=20000
Code: Select all
curl https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=max|jq '.results[].name'
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
Case in point, coming up with that command is more work than splitting up the resulting list.Merssedes wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 4:53 pmList of just names (bash code):Code: Select all
curl https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=max|jq '.results[].name'
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
You can split entire list of 13k+ mods in 2 minutes?curiosity wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 8:54 pmCase in point, coming up with that command is more work than splitting up the resulting list.Merssedes wrote: βTue Jul 09, 2024 4:53 pmList of just names (bash code):Code: Select all
curl https://mods.factorio.com/api/mods?page_size=max|jq '.results[].name'
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
The point is, this suggestion will do nothing but add to the number of useless garbage mods, not to mention the additional garbage mods required by legitimate use cases. The increase in difficulty you point out is barely noticeable, and that's before any kind of automation.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
OK. Are you able to write automated generation of such modpack?curiosity wrote: βThu Jul 11, 2024 6:58 amThe point is, this suggestion will do nothing but add to the number of useless garbage mods, not to mention the additional garbage mods required by legitimate use cases. The increase in difficulty you point out is barely noticeable, and that's before any kind of automation.
Re: Limit the number of a direct dependencies per mod
curiosity wrote: βThu Jul 11, 2024 6:58 amThe point is, this suggestion will do nothing but add to the number of useless garbage mods, not to mention the additional garbage mods required by legitimate use cases. The increase in difficulty you point out is barely noticeable, and that's before any kind of automation.
Last edited by Merssedes on Sat Jul 27, 2024 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.