Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

[Saphira123456]

[Moderated by Koub - Response to a since moderated content]

[Goodman599]

True, I don't bring ore to a central smelting station there either. I manufacture products on-site whenever I find the ore and then bring the finished or partially-finished products to my hub. This especially has to happen with oil products.

The biggest issue isn't the initial source, whether it's ore, oil, or fruit. It's the later products spoiling.

Exactly. This is why I wanted preservation on trains at minimum, so that one could gather the raw fruits at the farm, then ship them to an area that is cleared and not so cluttered for rapid processing/packing.

Hard to follow all your reasonning.

It depends on what I'm harvesting really. Sometimes I like to manufacture on site, other times it's easier to ship to a central area.

For oil products, I like to ship intermediate products in by rail and then the finished product (research packs usually) out by rail.

And you missed the important part in that last quote:

"an area that is cleared (in this case of trees) and not so cluttered"

[Moderated by Koub - off topic, don't restart a personal attacks escalation]

Hmm…

What if you had a setup that resembled a straight line? Like have your harvesters on the very left and expand rightwards.
As long as you don’t turn your straight line you shouldn’t have many space issues, and I believe that if done right this won’t have too long of traveling times.

[Saphira123456]

True, I don't bring ore to a central smelting station there either. I manufacture products on-site whenever I find the ore and then bring the finished or partially-finished products to my hub. This especially has to happen with oil products.

The biggest issue isn't the initial source, whether it's ore, oil, or fruit. It's the later products spoiling.

Exactly. This is why I wanted preservation on trains at minimum, so that one could gather the raw fruits at the farm, then ship them to an area that is cleared and not so cluttered for rapid processing/packing.

Hard to follow all your reasonning.

It depends on what I'm harvesting really. Sometimes I like to manufacture on site, other times it's easier to ship to a central area.

For oil products, I like to ship intermediate products in by rail and then the finished product (research packs usually) out by rail.

And you missed the important part in that last quote:

"an area that is cleared (in this case of trees) and not so cluttered"

[Moderated by Koub - off topic, don't restart a personal attacks escalation]

Hmm…

What if you had a setup that resembled a straight line? Like have your harvesters on the very left and expand rightwards.
As long as you don’t turn your straight line you shouldn’t have many space issues, and I believe that if done right this won’t have too long of traveling times.

You still run headlong into the issue of having to clear out all the trees, cliffs, etcetera in the area. Given how crowded with trees Gleba appears to be, clearing them out with nothing but an axe - so that you have space to actually build anything - will be a pain in the butt. Better to minimize the amount of clearance you have to do and just build a rail line back to an already-cleared area.

[mmmPI]

Now the question is, what do you have against me?

You need to stop feeling personnally threaten , you were included amongst the person i refer to there :

Now, i'd like to take a moment to commend those among us who engage in constructive speculation, those intrepid players who, despite the current lack of comprehensive information about the expansion's entirety, are able to discern the broader implications and potential benefits of these new mechanics. Your insightful analyses and forward-thinking discussions are invaluable to our community. They remind me that in the absence of complete details, premature criticism can often be unfounded and hasty. Instead, your reasoned speculations provide a beacon of thoughtful consideration, highlighting the importance of patience and the virtue of reserving final judgment until all pieces of the puzzle are laid before us.

I think it's constructive speculation because at the same time you don't have all information but you can already imagine the problem you may potentially encounter and you give very vocal feedback about it to make sure it doesn't get missed for the future game to adjust to your particular desire and wish, you as every other player, which makes this games so good because the devs can listen to the feedback of the players.

I wasn't sure i understood because here you said :

The biggest issue isn't the initial source, whether it's ore, oil, or fruit. It's the later products spoiling.

So i was thinking " ha the problem is not the initial source ?"

Exactly. This is why I wanted preservation on trains at minimum, so that one could gather the raw fruits at the farm, then ship them to an area that is cleared and not so cluttered for rapid processing/packing.

And here i was thinking , "arent the raw fruit the initial source ?"

So i felt lost, sort of facing a contradiction, due to my misunderstanding, so i expressed my difficulty to follow, sometimes it happens i don't understand things, don't mock me it's rude it was not easy to admit, that's why i thank you for your explanations :

It depends on what I'm harvesting really. Sometimes I like to manufacture on site, other times it's easier to ship to a central area.

I understand how this is going to be problematic in Gleba now.

[Goodman599]

What if you had a setup that resembled a straight line? Like have your harvesters on the very left and expand rightwards.
As long as you don’t turn your straight line you shouldn’t have many space issues, and I believe that if done right this won’t have too long of traveling times.

You still run headlong into the issue of having to clear out all the trees, cliffs, etcetera in the area. Given how crowded with trees Gleba appears to be, clearing them out with nothing but an axe - so that you have space to actually build anything - will be a pain in the butt. Better to minimize the amount of clearance you have to do and just build a rail line back to an already-cleared area.

Grenades and poison capsules! With explosive damage II a single grenade is enough to destroy a tree, otherwise it takes 2, but it’s still a great option for clear them out!

[mmmPI]

Grenades and poison capsules! With explosive damage II a single grenade is enough to destroy a tree, otherwise it takes 2, but it’s still a great option for clear them out!

That's good to use to clear the room for a rail line to an already cleared area also , in case you can't find a clear area to process the fruits, and you prefer building a rail line to use train to transport the fruits to an already cleared area. Following previous reasonning that i now understand

[FuryoftheStars]

Are you not able to go to a new planet with armor and equipment in that armor? You can have personal roboports in it and thus not worry about manually chopping anything.

[Goodman599]

Are you not able to go to a new planet with armor and equipment in that armor? You can have personal roboports in it and thus not worry about manually chopping anything.

I think they’ve said that the engineer can’t have anything in his inventory when traveling by rocket.

[FuryoftheStars]

Hmm, Ok, yeah, found it. Armor and guns only, not even ammo. That said, this is for launching up into space. Nothing was really said about landing that I can find, though. They didn't cover that very well. I was thinking that landing on a planet at least allowed some gear and supplies like a new game+, but maybe not. :/

[mmmPI]

Thinking about space exploration, the first trip to a new planet,i would load the rocket/spaceplatform with solar pannel, and grenade/poison capsule, then robotport and robots...

It may be even possible to "order" several "delivery" once you land on a planet, depending on how good your instrastructure was on the previous planet, i don't see why not have several spaceplatform delivering goods like cliffs explosives and rails too.

[GregoriusT]

Are you not able to go to a new planet with armor and equipment in that armor? You can have personal roboports in it and thus not worry about manually chopping anything.

You may have the Roboport but you wont have the Robots unless the Devs add a dedicated Robot Slot to your Inventory.

[doktorstick]

Will pollution kill off your agriculture, much like it kills off the trees on Nauvis?

I hope so. I hope there's some tension to building big on Gleba.

[Saphira123456]

What if you had a setup that resembled a straight line? Like have your harvesters on the very left and expand rightwards.
As long as you don’t turn your straight line you shouldn’t have many space issues, and I believe that if done right this won’t have too long of traveling times.

You still run headlong into the issue of having to clear out all the trees, cliffs, etcetera in the area. Given how crowded with trees Gleba appears to be, clearing them out with nothing but an axe - so that you have space to actually build anything - will be a pain in the butt. Better to minimize the amount of clearance you have to do and just build a rail line back to an already-cleared area.

Grenades and poison capsules! With explosive damage II a single grenade is enough to destroy a tree, otherwise it takes 2, but it’s still a great option for clear them out!

The problem is it's still going to be very slow going. Plus you have to actually make grenades, poison capsules, cliff explosives, etcetera. Since you can't have anything in your inventory while onboard your rocket, as others have stated, it's going to be very tough to have grenades and poison capsules, especially since you effectively have to restart from square one on each planet.

This means everything on Gleba suffers from the same "overpopulation of trees" problem, ores, oil and fruit all suffer from it. Finding or making space to build anything without a fast way to clear-cut or slash-and-burn an entire section of forest, is a huge problem.

With the apparent lack of clearings on-planet, it's not going to be feasible to build like I normally do. I'll have to hack and slash my way through to build a clearing for the core of my factory building, then hack and slash my way over to the fruit trees - which themselves appear to be like finding a needle in a haystack - without accidentally destroying them. Then I'll have to do more chopping to any other things I want to gather.

There's going to be a lot of painful, annoying, manual chopping to do no matter what. I have zero interest in doing any more chopping than is absolutely needed because it's so painful. Hence the need and desire for long rail lines to a previously cleared area that is less painful to build things in.

[Goodman599]

Grenades and poison capsules! With explosive damage II a single grenade is enough to destroy a tree, otherwise it takes 2, but it’s still a great option for clear them out!

The problem is it's still going to be very slow going. Plus you have to actually make grenades, poison capsules, cliff explosives, etcetera. Since you can't have anything in your inventory while onboard your rocket, as others have stated, it's going to be very tough to have grenades and poison capsules, especially since you effectively have to restart from square one on each planet.

This means everything on Gleba suffers from the same "overpopulation of trees" problem, ores, oil and fruit all suffer from it. Finding or making space to build anything without a fast way to clear-cut or slash-and-burn an entire section of forest, is a huge problem.

With the apparent lack of clearings on-planet, it's not going to be feasible to build like I normally do. I'll have to hack and slash my way through to build a clearing for the core of my factory building, then hack and slash my way over to the fruit trees - which themselves appear to be like finding a needle in a haystack - without accidentally destroying them. Then I'll have to do more chopping to any other things I want to gather.

There's going to be a lot of painful, annoying, manual chopping to do no matter what. I have zero interest in doing any more chopping than is absolutely needed because it's so painful. Hence the need and desire for long rail lines to a previously cleared area that is less painful to build things in.

Sorry, but that’s a view I strongly disagree with. Even with 2-4 grenade assemblers I generally never run out of them on nauvis since a buffer builds up. It really only the early game where trees are annoying, since as soon as I research military 2 they just aren’t an issue anymore. And news flash, going to gleba won’t reset all of your research!
Literally all you need for grenades are some coal mines and some iron smelters. If you really have to, you can also bring grenades as cargo on the rocket ship, sacrificing space for other items.

You say there’s no fast way to clear trees, but I’ve provided a perfectly good solution. It is up to you to change your own play style to adopt these solutions to the problems you face. It’s not there are no ways to clear out trees, it’s that you aren’t putting the necessary focus and attention into creating the methods that clear trees.

[Svip]

By the time you get to Gleba, you should have construction robots unlocked. FFF #373 doesn't explicit state so, but it would have been a weird omission from this list:

Since the goal was to make the overall expansion experience as good as possible, we have rebalanced the tech tree. This means, that with Space Age enabled, some items that are available in vanilla are unlocked later on some planet. This specifically applies to artillery, cliff explosives (this is the masochist part of me speaking), Spidertron, best tier of modules, and some personal equipment upgrades.

As for bringing a personal roboport, FFF #382 implies that's possible, but you'd need to bring the robots themselves on the rocket.

However the weight system implies that the player can potentially hold tons of rockets worth of items in their inventory, so for traveling to space, you can only carry your armor and your guns, nothing else (not even ammo).

Again, not explicit, but I doubt they'll force you to empty your armour's grid before getting on the rocket, considering they mention ammo, but not the armour's grid.

[mmmPI]

as others have stated, it's going to be very tough to have grenades and poison capsules, especially since you effectively have to restart from square one on each planet.

I can't find the players you mentionned, who would have stated that making grenades is very difficult, i searched though, i think you made a mistake and thought someone said this , but no, it was not the case, this or it is is another occurence where you fudge the numbers to get your point accross and it up having the opposite effect for me.

I highly disagree anyway, it's just as easy as sending them through the space platform like any other item that one would ship with spaceplatform accross space.

There's going to be a lot of painful, annoying, manual chopping to do no matter what. I have zero interest in doing any more chopping than is absolutely needed because it's so painful. Hence the need and desire for long rail lines to a previously cleared area that is less painful to build things in.

Here i agree, i understand the strategy now, it is similar to the earlier reformulation i made :

That's good to use to clear the room for a rail line to an already cleared area also , in case you can't find a clear area to process the fruits, and you prefer building a rail line to use train to transport the fruits to an already cleared area. Following previous reasonning that i now understand

If clearing tree take too much time because you can't be bothered to make grenade, then it makes total sense to use an area that has been previously cleanned of trees to avoid having to clear an area of trees in the first place, because it takes long.

Very brillant reasonning you keep posting here thank you for sharing your insights and allow us to picture the struggle of other players that would have a such unique playstyle.

[GregoriusT]

I think the reason grenades are so hard to make on Gleba is because there is no Coal there, at least I did not see Coal Ore to be confirmed at that Planet, and it makes sense for it to not exist there, because then people are more forced to use the local plants for making plastic.

[Tricorius]

It’s like none of you have seen the Predator and never gone Gatling gun on your forests. Sure, grenades are easier and more fun…but it’s not like we don’t have other good options.

Also, I’m pretty sure the seeds don’t spoil…so beeline a small setup for research to where you can make your own soil, setup a LARGE farm in a location you’ve been preparing. You could even train over your stockpile of seeds and soil if you really want to.

You don’t HAVE to build the entire chain, huge, at the first tree you find. Setup a small build. Then move everything over to a better location. This is still Factorio, peeps.

Personally, I’m glad there are unique challenges to solve on each planet. And then you can take the best and worst parts of that knowledge and experience to make an awesome hybrid design for Nauvis (or wherever you choose to setup as your main base).

Again, we know NOTHING of the requirements here. It might be that research requires very small amounts of agricultural research beakers. Mountains are being made out of molehills. But that isn’t new for the Factorio community.

[Tricorius]

This means everything on Gleba suffers from the same "overpopulation of trees" problem, ores, oil and fruit all suffer from it. Finding or making space to build anything without a fast way to clear-cut or slash-and-burn an entire section of forest, is a huge problem.

What are you basing this “trees all over Gleba” assumption on? They showed us a preview in the previous FFF. It looks pretty sparse to me:

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IMG_3376.png (3.2 MiB) Viewed 1564 times

I don’t feel like setting up a few small and large outposts is going to be terrible here. And you’ll probably want some rails to bring ores and such over anyway.

Bring a few stacks of ammo, or make them on planet. And blaze down a few copses of trees. Might need some wood anyway. Chop a couple.

It just doesn’t feel that hard to me.

[mmmPI]

I think the reason grenades are so hard to make on Gleba is because there is no Coal there, at least I did not see Coal Ore to be confirmed at that Planet, and it makes sense for it to not exist there, because then people are more forced to use the local plants for making plastic.

You could still have a space platform deliver some grenades to you from Nauvis, or robotport and robots and solar pannels, in a nice ballet, dropping their load in the spaceport mere seconds after your personnal transport spaceplatform has arrived, maybe even send a spidertron first ? not sure when this will be unlocked, does it need agricultural science pack ?

Or do several trip back and forth to fetch them ...

Similar to how you could set up outpost in vanilla, but using a different system where platforms have limited quantity of storage.

Arent there coal asteroids ? maybe it is possible to have a grenade making platform to make up for the absence of coal on Gleba, you'd be dealing with plants for oil, and getting coal from space ?