The Productivity Cap and why the FFF #375 recycler shouldn't be introduced

[MeduSalem]

I'm sure all of that would affect things for different players in different ways. But ultimately, I feel that more so affects the order in which one does them more so than how far on each one.

True, every player favors different things; so there will not be "one fits everything & everyone" strategy. ^^

[Epb7304]

[...] and we would very quickly reach the incredibly low cap of 300% productivity, [...]

I laughed when I read that. Especially when I read the "incredible low". I can't tell whether you are serious or not. ^^

In the base game you will not be able to hit 300% even if you put legendary tier 3 productivity modules inside a machine.

Currently a tier 3 Productivity module only gives +10% per module. If legendary quality it will be +150% of 10%. 10% + 10%*150% = 25%. So a legendary module will be +25% productivity per module.

And there is no machine, not even the expansion (or at least none was shown yet) that will allow so many modules that you can go all the way up to 300% productivity.

Some of the new machines shown have 50% productivity by default. Some of them have 5 Slots. But still only results in 50%+5*25% = +175% productivity. ^^

At least it is not said that a legendary Machine will have higher default Productivity as well, just higher speed.

And you can't boost productivity using a beacon, so there are no other sources where it could come from.

Currently I see no way to actually reach the 300% cap in the base game or expansion. So I don't even know why they made that cap in the first place if you can't get there. Only gives the wrong impression that you would be able to do that but you can't.



And when it comes to mods, they can raise that 300% cap to whatever ridiculous amount they want so it is not of a concern for them.

Did you even read my post? I explain how in the part of the sentence JUST BEFORE YOUR QUOTE

In FFF #376 (the very next FFF after quality) We are introduced to quality research, take that and the boost from max level quality modules and we would very quickly reach the incredibly low cap of 300% productivity

[MeduSalem]

Yea, sorry. I already wrote that I stand corrected in the next reply afterwards. ^^



Anyway the cap will be there; It is extremely unlikely that they will cut the Recycler because a feature like it has been discussed and been among the most requested additions over the past 10 years. And together with the quality system they just have to cap it to avoid the net-positive-feedback loop of returning quality ingredients.

It is not like I haven't thought about a different way to do it either, but I have not found one that feels natural enough or that wasn't extremely more complicated than a cap.

The productivity cap however has the most simple & logical base in the real world because after a point, as I already wrote in the discussion above, you simply cannot cut out more cookies of the amount of dough available; simply because it would have almost no substance left.
Capping the productivity is the easier solution; and one that can be justified.



Apart from that and to partly sum up another thing about "infinite research" is, that from my perspective even if the productivity would not be capped, there are no compelling reasons to even go further after a certain point;

Simply because of the diminishing returns such researches yield. Going from 10% to 20% is a relative change of 100% and it will likely be cheap enough from research to be worth pursuing, but going from 300% to 310% is just a relative change of 3.3% anymore and it is only getting worse & worse with each additional level. At some point the relative productivity increase doesn't cover its own increasing research costs anymore unless you dump another couple hundred hours into the same map just to break even with the amount of resources you dumped into that research level. Most people will never even go to such lengths because they abandon the map before that.
Not to forget that this is just increasing productivity for 1 item type; so it doesn't even affect the whole recipe but only a fraction of it. You would have to repeat the same for however many other items they intend to have such productivity researches on; making the process even more expensive.
At some point increasing productivity for another level is just doing it for the sake of it and for the prestige of how far you can possibly get before your computer can't handle the factory and not because you would actually really get more productivity out of it.
And that is not much different for mining productivity or other infinite researches either; After some point it is just faster & way cheaper to stamp more machines/turrets down than to go to the next level of research.
It is the major reason why I don't pursue infinite researches after a certain level already; it just doesn't pay off to waste your time like that. ^^


Anyway, even if some ultra hardcore player with 5000 hours who basically lives in Factorio may prove above to be wrong; they are a negligible minority.
And the cap is moddable; so there will be mods to lift it if they really need it and want to break the game.


But that, among other things is what I already pointed out throughout the discussion above already. So that is the end of the matter from my side.