Friday Facts #399 - Trash to Treasure

[mmmPI]

The drawback is that some player may not understand the tools given to them so that they can handle the infinite stone.

May I remind you of the Ingame Tutorial Hint System that is definitely going to tell people how to void Stuff? That or they just build Chests upon Chests to store all the Stone because they skipped the Hint like I do all the time.

You reminded me that building storage chest upon storage chest is actually a way to get rid of stone in Fulgora, provided it's unprotected against lightning right ?

You could go with carelessness and observation rather than reading the hints ! which is good because i skip them too most of the time, thinking i would then search only for specific things when i encounter a problem. It often leads to realization that i've been doing something wrong for a long time, maybe not super efficient for fast learning. But then it stick better in memory

[Kasyu52]

you do also use a TON of concrete and bricks for flooring your base, and by the time you've stopped with constant expansions to the factory and your rail network, you've probably already beaten the game. the fact that those stone sinks dont work forever doesn't really matter, since it's good to stockpile buildings for when you need to expand. refineries aren't built that often, but rails? electric furnaces? foundries? when are you going to stop producing them outside of the super end game?
edit: the foundry requires 20 refined concrete to craft, as was shown in FFF#397.

fff-397-foundry.png (362.05 KiB) Viewed 3218 times

[Kasyu52]

I like the concept of scrap resource, but if I was a dev, I create layers of recycling.
The scrap could turn electronic scrap, metal scrap, or rubble; or this could be different types of resource in planet

The electronic scrap could turn copper scrap, plastic scrap, or sulfur.
The metal scrap could be turn iron scrap, steel scrap, or holmium scrap.
The rubble could be torn concrete, ice, stone, low density structure or solid combustible.

And copper scrap, plastic scrap, iron scrap... could be melted or turned copper plate, plastic, iron scrap in a furnace.

It's just an idea, I just want to give this suggestion.

that's the exact thing the devs have stated they WANT to avoid, since there is only one recipe per item, with the exception of smelted materials, which cant be recycled. and they also dont want to add a bunch of intermediates to the game, since that just adds frustration.

[catpig]

I like the concept of scrap resource, but if I was a dev, I create layers of recycling.
The scrap could turn electronic scrap, metal scrap, or rubble; or this could be different types of resource in planet

The electronic scrap could turn copper scrap, plastic scrap, or sulfur.
The metal scrap could be turn iron scrap, steel scrap, or holmium scrap.
The rubble could be torn concrete, ice, stone, low density structure or solid combustible.

And copper scrap, plastic scrap, iron scrap... could be melted or turned copper plate, plastic, iron scrap in a furnace.

It's just an idea, I just want to give this suggestion.

that's the exact thing the devs have stated they WANT to avoid, since there is only one recipe per item, with the exception of smelted materials, which cant be recycled. and they also dont want to add a bunch of intermediates to the game, since that just adds frustration.

I'm sure - and I hope - that there'll be a mod for that

[GregoriusT]

I like the concept of scrap resource, but if I was a dev, I create layers of recycling.
The scrap could turn electronic scrap, metal scrap, or rubble; or this could be different types of resource in planet

This would not only complicate things needlessly, it would also just be one extra step in recycling, which would not really facilitate the lore of the Recycler being able to reverse a Recipe that has mixed Categories of ingredients.

[XT-248]

Void it?

That is a last resort option, and I wouldn't say I like being 'forced' to utilize last resort as the default modus operandi.

Put another way; I would instead re-direct excess byproducts from somewhere to another location where it can supplement or cause miners or assemblers to go idle while there is a large burst of byproducts (stone and concrete). This does add a non-trivial amount of logistic spaghetti and oscillation production, but I don't mind, as it is my modus operandi.

The game is a sandbox. One player will build roboports like crazy, another might plaster everything with granite floor and build railroads all over the map. Those two would have a very different demand for stone. To accomodate them both the game could provide more stone and give the first player the option to void the stone.

I play in a way that minimizes the amount of stone I need for defensive purposes (the how doesn't matter here). Another player may not do this. Having a little stone on Fulgora is not going to harm my gameplay.

Another player may find themselves short of stone on Fulgora; they opt to solve it by setting a Space Platform logistic demand for stone from other providers off-world. Nothing wrong with this approach.

(By the way: The only thing I have against voiding is that it makes it just too easy to avoid any production blocks)

I agree. Resorting to voiding is on its' own 'uninteresting' gameplay.

Instead, resorting to something similar to the Seablock Evil Mode modpack ('voiding is unattractive and costs more energy' variant of Seablock) makes for a far more profound and fun gameplay, where players' first source of raw material forces players to void at first until they unlock late-game production techniques that consume what they used to void freeing up energy to be used elsewhere in the factory.

Players can continue to void or pick an alternative technique that doesn't opt for 'voiding.'


I am generally not against voiding if used correctly to facilitate stimulating different choices in High-level Factory Designs.

[mmmPI]

Someone finally find the treasure x) ( hint : it's hidden in the gameplay )

[Twisted_Code]

You think you're real slick with those fluid puns, don't you? But I have to admit, this whole planet is pretty cool. And some of the changes you made are quite shocking (Let that missed pun sink in). This is outstanding (you know, that's how you get shocked here: standing out. Okay I'm done )!

Okay but SERIOUSLY, I love love love everything about this. I can't wait to play it, when it's done (...... but hopefully A. going well so you can go fast and B. without any unmanaged scope creep!).

[Voidling242]

Damage and frequency boosted for demonstration purposes.

Scammed and clickbaited. Such a shame.

Modders, you know what to do.

Hopefully the world settings can be set to something like that.

[Voidling242]

Anyways, Quantity Modules, really need those to be added too, or rename Productivity Modules to that. XD

I think speed Modules would be quantity modules.

[redladi]

Background

As I understand current Fulgora provides a core mechanic where you either avoid getting hit by lightning or with "Factorio magic" convert it to pure energy. Although, lightning might look good superficially with all that power and glory, in reality it is not that economical to harvest as power source. [1]

Lightning comes with a key benefit of providing a power surge. This works in nature with many interesting and perhaps life critical cycles, like fixing nitrogen [2] or generating ozone. Sure there are more than one way of doing it, but lightning has its role. The proposal below tries to exploit the same.

Proposal

What if we use this surge as an alternate recipe for electromagnetic science packs instead?

Imagine crafting of these science packs requiring loads of power. A mechanic similar to Coronal Mass Ejections defense in SE. A player would have to have huge power banks and use automations to craft once when they have enough power stored.

At the beginning players can setup basic research using this inefficient crafting method and accumulators. However, mass production of such science packs would be impractical this way. Here comes the advanced lightning rods (a.k.a. lightning assemblers). Once researched these can be used to craft electromagnetic science packs WITHOUT EXCESSIVE POWER!

Players can still gather basic power with basic lightning rods, just the advanced ones becomes assembler like.

New Challenges

1. Sure they will only work when a lightning strikes a collector, so the production would be choppy. This adds a new challenge for player to have raw materials buffered during the day to process them all at night.
2. As the lightning has a radius, only one collector will get hit within that radius. This would promote a more distributed logistic challenge where players would have to spread out their lightning assemblers and have them fed through logistics.

P.S.: Avoiding grind

With any mechanic there comes the grind. In this case transporting tons of different ingredients to different lightning assemblers. This would most likely become a train wagon only solution for most players. Maybe we can introduce an intermediatory product making a single ingredient alternate recipe for lightning assemblers.

[1] https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask ... lightning
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightnin ... organisms

[bobucles]

Using lightning itself as a recipe ingredient? Sure, sounds pretty cool. You can't control when it happens, so the factory needs to be actively ready to use as much as it can get.

How might a player scale it up? Pollution might affect planet weather by causing more lightning blasts (the lightning could also destroy pollution in the process, giving some push back). Maybe there's a tesla generator to create lightning at home. Or, the player just covers more real estate to capture more bolts.

[redladi]

How might a player scale it up? ... Maybe there's a tesla generator to create lightning at home. Or, the player just covers more real estate to capture more bolts.

The factory must grow!

I would imagine player having to expand more to capture. Tesla generators IMHO beats the purpose here where there isn't an artificial way without use of excessive power. We already have an equivalent to Tesla generators in terms of ineffective recipe I described earlier.

The goal here is to add more novel challenges to each planet than the same kinda compact builds.

Pollution might affect planet weather by causing more lightning blasts (the lightning could also destroy pollution in the process, giving some push back).

I like it. Although, in this case pollution is actually helping the factory.

What if pollution reduces lightning frequency? This way there is an incentive for players to use better efficiency modules to gain more out of the planet. However, this breaks the early gameplay where player have to defend against the lightning. Pollution gives them an easy way out. Hence, I don't like this idea of reducing lightning frequency.

[catpig]

What if we use this surge as an alternate recipe for electromagnetic science packs instead?

I'm a bit late, but this is a great idea!

[rootgear]

Superconductors and a train dependent planet makes me wonder if maybe we are getting... BULLET TRAINS!? Perhaps on floating superconductor rails!?
Just a cool thought. Not such what that would bring to the game that is different though.

Very hype!

Thought the same thing when reading about holmium, it makes sense both conceptually with the advertised properties of such and the increased incentive for train usage on fulgora. Would also be cool if the rails could double as an electrical network themselves. This would allow a players railway to act like a battery of sorts where electricity is pumped into the cyclical underlying superconducting coil and drawn from it via poles attached near the railway combining both into a more defensible package.

[Saphira123456]

Superconductors and a train dependent planet makes me wonder if maybe we are getting... BULLET TRAINS!? Perhaps on floating superconductor rails!?
Just a cool thought. Not such what that would bring to the game that is different though.

Very hype!

Thought the same thing when reading about holmium, it makes sense both conceptually with the advertised properties of such and the increased incentive for train usage on fulgora. Would also be cool if the rails could double as an electrical network themselves. This would allow a players railway to act like a battery of sorts where electricity is pumped into the cyclical underlying superconducting coil and drawn from it via poles attached near the railway combining both into a more defensible package.

Satisfactory anyone? Satisfactorio?