GoG User Agreement Changes Discussion

[Takei Naodar]

What are you guys thinking about the new User Agreement changes with GoG?

Essentially they are forbidding modding any game you get from them, even if the publisher allows it.

1.3 Also, when we're talking about games, in-game content, virtual items or currency or GOG videos or other content or services which you can purchase or access via GOG services, we’ll just call them “GOG games” or “GOG videos” respectively and when we talk about them all together they are “GOG content”.

2.2 When you buy, access or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User License Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

11.1
(e) Do not create, use, make available and/or distribute cheats, exploits, automation software, robots, bots, mods, hacks, spiders, spyware, cheats, scripts, trainers, extraction tools or other software that interact with or affect GOG services or GOG content in any way (including, without limitation, any unauthorized third party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between GOG or its partners and GOG services and/or any unauthorized third party programs that collect information about GOG services).


Source:
https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articl ... roduct=gog

It might also be interesting to have official word on this issue.

[mmmPI]

What are you guys thinking about the new User Agreement changes with GoG?

Essentially they are forbidding modding any game you get from them, even if the publisher allows it.

I don't have the same interpretation at all !

To me it's a lot of legal gibberish to state things that are pretty much known by comon sense.

1.3 Also, when we're talking about games, in-game content, virtual items or currency or GOG videos or other content or services which you can purchase or access via GOG services, we’ll just call them “GOG games” or “GOG videos” respectively and when we talk about them all together they are “GOG content”.

This is just semantic, it means to define the context in which "GOG content" is to be understood in the rest of the document. Yeah the wording might sound like they are appropriating everything sold through their services, but they are not claiming ownership, just telling that "GOG content" will be used to talk about those instead of using the verbose form " games, in-game content, virtual items or currency or GOG videos or other content or services which you can purchase or access via GOG services" all the time. This is not binding document, i could say factorio is one of my games, as one of the game i bought, and my friend refer to it as "mmmPi's game" because i showed him, GOG says factorio is a GOG game because they "sell" it, and then proceed to describe what to do with "GOG games".

2.2 When you buy, access or install GOG games, you might have to agree to additional contract terms with the developer/publisher of the game (e.g. they might ask you to agree to a game specific End User License Agreement). If there is any inconsistency or dispute between those ‘EULAs’ and this Agreement, then this Agreement wins.

This make sense in that they are a platform, so the first part means that you as customer have obligations not only to the platform but also with the developer/publisher.
Then for "who wins" it's not because you write it on a paper somewhere that it becomes true, the developer/publisher may have thought of the same very smart trick , then it's justice who decide "who wins" in case of litigation.

11.1
(e) Do not create, use, make available and/or distribute cheats, exploits, automation software, robots, bots, mods, hacks, spiders, spyware, cheats, scripts, trainers, extraction tools or other software that interact with or affect GOG services or GOG content in any way (including, without limitation, any unauthorized third party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between GOG or its partners and GOG services and/or any unauthorized third party programs that collect information about GOG services).

I changed the underlining which i'll explain first, and stroke a word, which i'll explain at the end, i think the word "mod" is not important here, they tried to make a list off all things that could be used to screw with their services, i think the location in user agreement means this relate to their multiplayer service, like matchmaking, and visitor statistics, for which they have an actual right to forbid things and expect their document to "win" in case of litigation.

The 11) paragraph is quite long and start by :

(a) Only use GOG services or GOG content for your personal enjoyment (for example, don't use them to make money, for piracy or for political purposes).

(b) Regarding GOG content, what you can do practically apart from playing the games (like create derivative works of it) depends on what the GOG content rights holder allows you to do (GOG can’t grant such rights). So please check this with the rights holder directly (the first thing you should do though is to check if they have a EULA and if so what it says). We also ask that you make only genuine attempts to improve the GOG content.

And later there is :

15.1 You might get links to third-party websites or content through GOG services which aren’t connected to us. Using them is up to you – we’re not responsible for them, we can't promise they will work, what they'll be like or if they're free.

Regarding factorio mods i think but i'm no legal expert that it's something on which GOG can't grant/restrict any right, as a derivative work, it would depend on the publisher/devs desire. Now if a dev says "you can mod my game" here is a portal for you to publish your third party content , it doesn't mean you are allowed to mod it in a way that would allow you to hack on the GOG multiplayer, or interfere with their services, they expect their document "to win", that's a case where it would make sense for the previous 11.1 point that's between you and GOG. It make more sense to understand the general statement for games where GOG is the only retailer of the game and/or also managing the online part of the game through their services because otherwise it's a situation where many players are not bound by GOG conditions that they didn't have to sign. I imagine some harmonization of rules must occur under the lead of the publisher/dev for competitive game that would have several retailers, and GOG being one of them.

But apart from that, they aren't connected to third party content, it is not GOG-content, because you do not download it through them, they are not responsible for illegal things or broken things or scams or whatever, they are only responsible for what they provide themselves and things that interfere with it. They are not forbiding mods, they are discharging themselves of the responsability in case there are illegal things in those third party content = factorio mods , just because you bought the game through GOG doesn't mean you can complain to them for the bad jokes on the factorio forum (third party link) , or the broken mods on the portal (third party content).

Although they state that they would come at you if you are the third party publishing a mod on that hypothetic portal if that mod is aimed at interfering with GOG service, i striked "GOG content" there because it's conflicting with that other statement :" Regarding GOG content, what you can do practically apart from playing the games depends on what the GOG content rights holder allows you to do". They monitor people's interfering with GOG services via a mod or other thing, and call the game they sell GOG content, but they do not monitor mod for GOG content ( game bought through GOG platform) , that do not interfere with GOG services (multiplayer/matchamking/online lobbies chat ) is my interpretation. I striked the wording that i think could make someone think they meant something different, like forbidding mods on third party website not hosted by GOG that do not affect GOG services . They are "not responsible" for that.

[Takei Naodar]

Although they state that they would come at you if you are the third party publishing a mod on that hypothetic portal if that mod is aimed at interfering with GOG service, i striked "GOG content" there because it's conflicting with that other statement.

No, you have simply changed the User Agreement, since it did not fit with your assessment. Basically your whole point is moot because of that.
And no, sadly it is not a translation error, I checked in multiple languages.

Just to simplify things.
Clause 1.3 defines "games, in-game content" as part of GoG Content.
Clause 2.2 states that in their legal stance towards you, if the EULA and their UA are in conflict, their UA has precedence.
Clause 11.1 (e) forbids you to create, use, make available and/or distribute mods/hacks/cheats for the GoG Content (aka the game as defined in clause 1.3)

So if the EULA allows mods and since their UA does not, from their legal stance towards you as their customer is, you are not allowed mods.

However, after some thought 11.1 (b) gives an out, so if you have explicit permission by the publisher/developer (since the EULA is overruled) you are allowed, since that is not overruled by clause 2.2.

That is atleast my understanding of it so far.

That is why I'm also interested in hearing other opinions about it, cause so far it seems like absolutely wrong and illegal. Especially since they interfere in other Agreements.

[Koub]

I think there are two slightly different uses of the world "mod" depending on the context :
- the game supported mods, user content the games make use of because they were designed to support them
- the unsupported "hack mod", for example things that interfere with the games in a way not intended by the developers. They modify (in the sense of alter) the original game

Let me give you an example :
The Factorio style mods we all know = totally fine, they don't modify the game itself
If someone developed a dll that hooked into Factorio executable to create "attachment points" from where the game itself would be altered in a way "not intended by the devs" = not allowed under GoG.

If my understanding is right, for some games, the modding capabilities would become forbidden, because to be able to make mods, people have to reverse engineer the game, and create something that hacks into the game to create artificially an API. If I remember correctly, the very beginning of tmodloader (for Terraria) was just that : a hack into the game executable to give mod capabilities to an otherwise non moddable game. And it was later on that the devs said "Oh year, let's just say our game is moddable, and tmodloader is the way to do so". And then boom, tmodloader becomes a legit part of the game, and doesn't cause any more issues.

Does that make sense ?

[Takei Naodar]

Sadly no, since they list mods, cheats, hacks as separate items and their definition encompasses everything that interacts with GoG Content (aka the game).
And since they are separate items, what you are talking about would only be hacks. Still bad enough since quite a few of those like the aformentioned Tmodloader would have never been able to become official if such a ruleset had been applied.
Mods are simply modification of any sort in my point of view, even if done via a expected API or Mod tools, they still modify/interact with the GoG Content.
And their clauses also do not only even extend to online gaming, but there is no limitation, so it would also affect singleplayer.
I'm not a lawyer though, but I have learned to read very carefully and pay attention to the exact wording and grammar used.

Edit:
Here is the french version to make things easier for you https://support.gog.com/hc/fr/articles/ ... roduct=gog
As far as I can tell it should be materially the same.

[Koub]

In the French version, the world mod is used as is :

[...]Ne pas créer, utiliser, mettre à disposition ou distribuer des fraudes, des exploits, des logiciels d'automatisation, des robots, des bots, des mods, des hacks, des spiders, des spywares, des cheats, des scripts, des trainers,[...]

I outlined in bold all the words that are not actually French worlds (not in the traditional French dictionaries), although commonly used in everyday life (or words that do exist in French, but not used that way). This is commonplace for anything ever so slightly related to computers, France is always lagging behind, and the official words are invented years after their English versions have taken root in the everyday life.

Some of them do have official French translations (example : the official for spyware in French is "logiciel espion", literally "spy software").

Therefore the use of "mod" is technically inaccurate in French, and can be varyingly interpreted, depending on what people call a mod.
I'm still reasonably convinced that "mod" is used as the abbreviation of "modification" in the sense of alteration in the original GCUs (and translated with less rather than more finesse in the other languages).

[Edit] : If I may add, GoG forums would be the best place to discuss GoG CGU. I mean it's not that the subject is uninteresting, just that there is not much that can be done on Factorio Forum if GoG CGUs are borked.

[mmmPI]

Essentially they are forbidding modding any game you get from them, even if the publisher allows it.

Disclaimer : According to your interpretation.

I tried to look up online other places where you could have gotten that idea like on reddit people are reacting to the update too :
https://www.reddit.com/r/gog/comments/1 ... other_gog/
Checked GoG forum, found post where people where asking for mod support, read online that people at GoG said they wanted to do mod support ...

But nowhere i could find anything supporting your claim, so i think you came up with that on your own and as you say :

I'm not a lawyer though, but I have learned to read very carefully and pay attention to the exact wording and grammar used.

I don't want to discourage you of reading and getting informed about legal details, but reading carefully and paying attention is not enough though.

Imagine the text is containing articles that you do not have to follow ? how would know ? It's not because a company write something on a piece of a paper that it becomes law. You need to have external knowledge of legal basis to forbid something to someone. If that text you read carefully told you to wear red cloth only to play or only play on computer from the year 1995 or other random ridiculous condition, your reading would need to be completed by some general knowledge of your own rights otherwise you could conclude things that are wrong, the conclusion is that the user agreement is overeaching and won't be enforced, it's not that you have to use an old computer and be dressed like santa. If you buy a car, and the conditions write "you can go as fast as you want", that's the same thing, it's not because the car seller wrote it on a piece of paper that you are immune to speeding ticket. There is a need to understand the legal basis, which laws apply to you, and why.

No, you have simply changed the User Agreement, since it did not fit with your assessment. Basically your whole point is moot because of that.
And no, sadly it is not a translation error, I checked in multiple languages.

I tried to explain politely where i think you made a mistake in your understanding in a text you signed I didn't bought factorio from GOG , i don't even have to apply their conditions and so are many players.
I cannot change this text, just explain to you what i think may have gotten you to jump to an erroneous conclusion according to me, such expression is copy pasted all along when writing such documents, and it can very well happen that one time it's the "too verbose" form that is used instead of shorter one that would be more appropriate. GOG is very well aware they cannot grants certain rights like the speed ticket immunity, and they are also very well aware they can't restrict supported-by-dev mods = derivative works when the game is not a GOG exclusivity/something they have ownership, unlike things like multiplayer where GOG is responsible for the fairness, and where they are telling you it's forbidden to use unsupported third party software to alter their services/products.

their definition encompasses everything that interacts with GoG Content (aka the game).

And it says :

(b) Regarding GOG content, what you can do practically apart from playing the games (like create derivative works of it) depends on what the GOG content rights holder allows you to do (GOG can’t grant such rights). So please check this with the rights holder directly (the first thing you should do though is to check if they have a EULA and if so what it says). We also ask that you make only genuine attempts to improve the GOG content.

When reading this carefully what is your interpretation ?

[nethus]

disiclaimer: I'm not legally schooled...

... but by the looks of it, I have as well the impression that they (unknowingly?) forbid you to mod any game they sell.

I think those clauses are generic clauses you'll find in most UA's from company's that sell software, written by lawyers that have no clue about the gaming industry where modding and user content is rather common. Or just included to protect themselves from whatever legal issue they might have in the future with one of the software company's whose games they sell.

Do you have a copy of the previous UA? the same -or similar- clauses regarding modding might have been there already, maybe the changes in the UA were on a completely different area. to reflect new/changed product names, modified legislation they had to incorporate,...

[Tertius]

As far as I see it, the section that forbid mods is actually a section that forbids the usage of malware. Software that modifies the sold games in a way unintended by the developers and harmful to the player community and/or to the developers.

The Factorio mods are no mods in this sense. Instead, these are user created DLCs, downloaded and managed from a platform supplied by the game developer and exclusively using an API the developer created especially for this and no other purpose. A major part of the game is designed especially for these user created DLCs, and significant development time is put into that API and into its support. This is simply an additional means of intended and expected interacting with the game. It's a core game functionality, and a major selling point.

[NineNine]

Why would anybody get Factorio from gog.com? Why wouldn't you just get it straight from Wube?

[Npl]

Why would anybody get Factorio from gog.com? Why wouldn't you just get it straight from Wube?

stranger things happen, some ppl even use steam.

but in the context "gog content" means the distributed files other methods of distribution - ie installer packages. no legal background but i doubt gog could even affect the legalese of any game itself (other than how it affects gog's services)

you can do mods, hacks, whatever locally. but dont preload the installer, not even personally much less distribute it.

[FuryoftheStars]

Why would anybody get Factorio from gog.com? Why wouldn't you just get it straight from Wube?

Because some people don't know you can buy the game directly from Wube.
Because some people don't know and thus don't trust Wube to handle their payments directly.
Because some people prefer their games all in one central platform.

I imagine there are many more reasons others could come up.

And you can easily substitute gog.com with any service, such as Steam.