[0.11.8] Inserter to cargo wagon behavior problems

[Cloner]

After the update I have noticed that inserters started behaving differently.
In particular inserters now grab item to be inserted in wagon even if wagon is full of this item - thus blocking the inserter and making it unable to grab other item types that wagon accepts. Previously the inserter wouldn’t grab the item if it cannot be placed in the wagon.

This makes impossible to fill a universal wagon that supplies outposts with various items from single request chest - now you need an additional chest for each item type, or you might get the inserter blocked with some item and be unable to load other items.
This also broke my rail-sourced RGB circuits production facility.

- It would be great if inserters checked the wagon to see if the item fits before grabbing it (as previously).
- It would also be great the wagon loading inserters would wait for the wagon to arrive before picking an item (not hoovering item over empty rails).

[Night_Ange1]

After looking at your set up here I wanted to try something similar in my base and came across this same problem, however I don't think its because the inserters are continuously trying to put materials in. I believe that its something that arises from the stack size bonus. At maxed research the stack size is 5, however if you only have 3 slots available in your container the inserter will sit there with 2 items in its hand until those are gone and this issue rears its ugly head. This problem doesn't seem to have as easy of a fix as it originally seems

[Cloner]

There are several sollutions:
- for the inserter to put back whatever its holding if it doesnt fit
- not take more than can fit in destination
- to make item transfer only when inserter finishes its move and is ready to drop

It would also fix some other cases when the inserter is stuck with an item.

[DaveMcW]

This was not changed, it always works this way.

Wagon-to-wagon inserters don't work if you are trying to move multiple item types.

[Cloner]

Same problem illustrated.

[FishSandwich]

It isn't new behaviour, I had this problem as early as 0.10, but agree that it needs to be fixed.

[Cloner]

Yeah its not new for wagon to rail, but it seems new from wagon to wagon as in picture 1. Needs to be fixed to provide more variety of designs.

[ssilk]

You need a smart inserter with filter for every type of item! Not a bug, and it hasn't changed since 0.10.

I wished, there could be a smarter way...

[Nova]

Maybe inserters should not try to lay things onto the rails...

[cooljoemeister]

On a related note, this behavior has stopped some blueprints from being built. If for some reason the construction bot builds the loader chest and an item gets in it before the rail gets built, the inserters will attempt to place an item over the ghost rail which doesn't allow the bot to place the rail. I noticed this behavior in 11.6. Haven't tested in 11.10

[kovarex]

There are several problems that would have to be solved.

• The inserter would only take the amount that could fit into the wagon - doable
• The inserter would need to take other things on the way (by other inserters) into consideration when doing this calculation - doable, but not so easy, and it might be performance issue if not done super properly.
• What would the inserter do, when he would be holding the item to be put into the train, and the train would leave the station before the inserter could put it in. The inserter is left with the item in the hand. He can't put it back.

The more I think about it, the more I think we should probably just leave it as it is.
It might be considered as the engineering challenge, well the challenge just is to use one container + inserter for one type of thing.

Until there is some great idea, I will move this to not a bug.

[hitzu]

He can't put it back.

Why not?

[kovarex]

He can't put it back.

Why not?

Maybe the chest was already filled by some other inserter? Or logistic robot.

[hitzu]

He can't put it back.

Why not?

Maybe the chest was already filled by some other inserter? Or logistic robot.

What if make a reserved empty place for picked item which could be occupied only after an inserter release that item?

[kovarex]

He can't put it back.

Why not?

Maybe the chest was already filled by some other inserter? Or logistic robot.

What if make a reserved empty place for picked item which could be occupied only after an inserter release that item?

That is a good idea, but now the amount of complications is starting to rise, and the question is, if we should put so much logic and intelligence into inserters, or should it be part of the game to overcome these problems.

[hitzu]

That is a good idea, but now the amount of complications is starting to rise, and the question is, if we should put so much logic and intelligence into inserters, or should it be part of the game to overcome these problems.

Inserters already know what items to put into assemblers, right? They know that one slot for red science is full of copper plates and they pick up gears and put them into another slot, they don't try to overflow assembler with plates. So why their behavior would be different for wagons?

[LordFedora]

Except if the assembler needs 1 stack of something, and you have 1 stack minus 3 in there, and the stack size bonus is four, it can't insert and will sit there holding an item